Is so stupid that Valeria Richards hangs out with Dr. Doom...

[The Ray]

It's very simple: Doom once kidnapped her brother and put the kid in Hell.

You know what Hell is? A realm of evil and suffering and nothing more. Literally the worse imaginable place. Putting someone there is the single worst thing you can do to anyone, and he did that to a child, her brother.

So, imagine someone doing something really, really awful to a child. So, what Doom did to her brother is WORSE than that.

I am already supposed to believe that the incredibly smart Valeria sees nothing wrong with being a violent despot. But am I also supposed to believe that the incredibly smart Valeria Richards sees nothing wrong with kidnapping and putting your brother in hell? Something that Doom used to be able to torture her whole family? She is so smart, so inteligent, that she sees some kind of noble act in submitting her family to torture and suffering that us, mere dumb mortals, cannot hope to see?

Am I supposed to see that as good writing?

[CaptCleghorn]

Am I supposed to see that as good writing?

Since you've never actually read the books, it's a moot point, innit?

[The Ray]

Since you've never actually read the books, it's a moot point, innit?

It's getting old. Come up with a better excuse to avoid the questions, please.

Kim Jong Un decides to torture your brother, your mother, your father and your uncles for whatever reason. He also has dedicated his life to make attempts against the lives of your whole family for a very petty reason. Are you so smart that you see the nobility on those actions and decides to spend time with him instead of with your family?

[Tendrin]

Incredibly smart people can believe stupid things too. That said, I really don't think it was ever about her /not/ seeing anything wrong with what Doom did.

[Iron Maiden]

Valeria is one of the few people old Doom actually likes. He delivered her when Reed was captured by the Hidden Ones (an offshoot of the Inhumans) and no one else was around that knew what to do. Bven Reed couldn't stop Sue from miscarrying before (FF #267) and she lost the baby when Reed couldn't capture Doc Ock in time to bring him to the hospital. He wanted Otto there because he was/is a specialist in radiation. But with Valeria Doom was uniquely qualified since he is a master of science and and very adept at sorcercy, both of which was used to safely deliver Valeria.



Part of the reason why there is an affinity between the two is because of the tangled history of her conception and birth. When the FF were fighting Abraxas and the Ultimate Nullifier had to be used, along with Franklin using his reality altering powers, Sue became pregnant again. What we learn is that when Sue lost the baby in FF #267 during Byrne's run , Franklin intervened and with Roma's help and she was kept "In the Heart and Soul of of Eternity". She comes to the FF as the teen-aged Valeria von Doom, who comes from an alternate reality where Victor was Sue's second husband after Reed had died in some unnamed conflict. It's sort of assumed that Valeria von Doom/Valeria Richards are linked because of this. So it is very possible she has an affinity for Victor since part of her tangled history includes a period where there was a paternal relationship via Valeria Von Doom.

Girl children seem to have a liking for Doom. Nadia Pym was excited to meet him as Infamous Iron Man.

[The Ray]

Valeria is one of the few people old Doom actually likes. He delivered her when Reed was captured by the Hidden Ones (an offshoot of the Inhumans) and no one else was around that knew what to do. Bven Reed couldn't stop Sue from miscarrying before (FF #267) and she lost the baby when Reed couldn't capture Doc Ock in time to bring him to the hospital. He wanted Otto there because he was/is a specialist in radiation. But with Valeria Doom was uniquely qualified since he is a master of science and and very adept at sorcercy, both of which was used to safely deliver Valeria.



Part of the reason why there is an affinity between the two is because of the tangled history of her conception and birth. When the FF were fighting Abraxas and the Ultimate Nullifier had to be used, along with Franklin using his reality altering powers, Sue became pregnant again. What we learn is that when Sue lost the baby in FF #267 during Byrne's run , Franklin intervened and with Roma's help and she was kept "In the Heart and Soul of of Eternity". She comes to the FF as the teen-aged Valeria von Doom, who comes from an alternate reality where Victor was Sue's second husband after Reed had died in some unnamed conflict. It's sort of assumed that Valeria von Doom/Valeria Richards are linked because of this. So it is very possible she has an affinity for Victor since part of her tangled history includes a period where there was a paternal relationship via Valeria Von Doom.

Okay.

How about the part that Doom has dedicated decades of his life to destroy her family for petty reasons, going as far as to torture her brother when he was litle more than a toddler? Why can't the genial Valeria sees he wrongness of that, when even a dumb guy like me can?

[AcesX1X]

i had no idea that wasp was a fan of doctor doom. this is so fascinating, yet it makes total sense.

thank you for posting this, iron maiden.

although there's a certain irony here, considering another member of the "pym" family of characters hates him with such a strong passion

(scott lang, i mean)

[CaptCleghorn]

It's getting old. Come up with a better excuse to avoid the questions, please.

Kim Jong Un decides to torture your brother, your mother, your father and your uncles for whatever reason. He also has dedicated his life to make attempts against the lives of your whole family for a very petty reason. Are you so smart that you see the nobility on those actions and decides to spend time with him instead of with your family?

If you actually read the books, you wouldn't ask the questions. And there are plenty of examples supporting the decision by Val.

[Michael Watkins]

It's very simple: Doom once kidnapped her brother and put the kid in Hell.

You know what Hell is? A realm of evil and suffering and nothing more. Literally the worse imaginable place. Putting someone there is the single worst thing you can do to anyone, and he did that to a child, her brother.

So, imagine someone doing something really, really awful to a child. So, what Doom did to her brother is WORSE than that.

I am already supposed to believe that the incredibly smart Valeria sees nothing wrong with being a violent despot. But am I also supposed to believe that the incredibly smart Valeria Richards sees nothing wrong with kidnapping and putting your brother in hell? Something that Doom used to be able to torture her whole family? She is so smart, so inteligent, that she sees some kind of noble act in submitting her family to torture and suffering that us, mere dumb mortals, cannot hope to see?

Am I supposed to see that as good writing?

It's incredibly stupid. Doom is a child killer who doesn't believe that he needs consent when he sleeps with his subjects.

[JasonEsta]

It's very simple: Doom once kidnapped her brother and put the kid in Hell.

You know what Hell is? A realm of evil and suffering and nothing more. Literally the worse imaginable place. Putting someone there is the single worst thing you can do to anyone, and he did that to a child, her brother.

So, imagine someone doing something really, really awful to a child. So, what Doom did to her brother is WORSE than that.

I am already supposed to believe that the incredibly smart Valeria sees nothing wrong with being a violent despot. But am I also supposed to believe that the incredibly smart Valeria Richards sees nothing wrong with kidnapping and putting your brother in hell? Something that Doom used to be able to torture her whole family? She is so smart, so inteligent, that she sees some kind of noble act in submitting her family to torture and suffering that us, mere dumb mortals, cannot hope to see?

Am I supposed to see that as good writing?

Oh no..I love how close Val c
is with Doom. Another good thing is he can't just talk to her the way he does everyone else.

[brettc1]

It's very simple: Doom once kidnapped her brother and put the kid in Hell.

You know what Hell is? A realm of evil and suffering and nothing more. Literally the worse imaginable place. Putting someone there is the single worst thing you can do to anyone, and he did that to a child, her brother.

So, imagine someone doing something really, really awful to a child. So, what Doom did to her brother is WORSE than that.

I am already supposed to believe that the incredibly smart Valeria sees nothing wrong with being a violent despot. But am I also supposed to believe that the incredibly smart Valeria Richards sees nothing wrong with kidnapping and putting your brother in hell? Something that Doom used to be able to torture her whole family? She is so smart, so inteligent, that she sees some kind of noble act in submitting her family to torture and suffering that us, mere dumb mortals, cannot hope to see?

Am I supposed to see that as good writing?

Well, to be honest Valeria never struck me as that wise. Smart sure, but Tony Stark is smart and look where that got him in the past. Reed built a Thor-shaped murder-bot.

Besides putting Franklin in hell Doom is a mass murderer. He has mutilated, tortured and killed Asgardians to gain their power, and he once stole an innocent passerby's body to escape amid that man was subsequently vaporised by

But girls and bad boys. Whatever.

[fantastic]

and next you know doom will snap his fingers and valrie will be ready to kill her own parents.

i think she should do that so sue and reed get back to their senses.

[Oberon]

There will always be certain lines that a company like Marvel will not cross. This could be one of them.

I think that the idea that Valeria is *really* Doom's daughter is only feasible in the sense that step fathers or blended family situations have produced deep loving relationships not based on biological reality.

So Valeria is the daughter of Doom's "heart" or spirit.

When Franklin did major mojo to take Reed and Sue's stillborn child from a much earlier story, preserve her and bring her back some time later, proves that she is biologically the true daughter of Reed, and Sue. Nothing more should be revised, undone - - shattered.

On the other evil or not so evil (pseudo) step children have a great tradition in various parts of literature so why not in this manner.

As I said Valeria may be a sort of Doom's spiritual daughter and that is prime enough for stories examining this part of the human condition.

Remember, even biological parents can impart very good, noble traits - or they can teach their children the evil hatred of racism (for example).

Nurture over nature.

[CaptCleghorn]

Here's a crazy idea. What if Doom's machinations in Valeria's birth didn't mess with Reed's genes in Valeria's birth, but Sue's?

What if Valeria was Reed and Victor's child?

We're talking about the Doom from the Byrne era, who did recognize Reed as second best and still had little respect for the other members of the Four.
The combination of Reed and Sue produced Franklin and that was a genetic $#!+ storm. Doom's gene's are unaffected by cosmic rays therefore rediucing that risk of power problems.
Valeria is far closer to her two dads than she is her Mom.

That would be some serious Doom stuff right there. And it kinda makes sense.

[Cmbmool]

Here's a crazy idea. What if Doom's machinations in Valeria's birth didn't mess with Reed's genes in Valeria's birth, but Sue's?

What if Valeria was Reed and Victor's child?

We're talking about the Doom from the Byrne era, who did recognize Reed as second best and still had little respect for the other members of the Four.
The combination of Reed and Sue produced Franklin and that was a genetic $#!+ storm. Doom's gene's are unaffected by cosmic rays therefore rediucing that risk of power problems.
Valeria is far closer to her two dads than she is her Mom.

That would be some serious Doom stuff right there. And it kinda makes sense.

Now THAT would a twist that one wouldn't see coming and would be very DOOM like to do. Plus it would explain why Sue and Valeria aren't as close as we often see.