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  1. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Doom could have had a literal harem of wives to please his every need.
    then why was he using his position to pressure villagers into pleasuring him? and before anyone suggests that they could have resisted, please consider the leverage that he enters the equation with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    It doesn't help that Reed himself seemingly encouraged Doom to hang out at his house and basically treated him like a member of the family.
    that was Nathaniel's idea. the plan was for Doom to die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Of course Val likes Doom more! Doom encourages her and wants her to be the best little genius she can be,
    spoiling a child is actually considered to be child abuse. and Reed does encourage her. he created the Future Foundation so she and others like her could explore their own intellect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    while Sue can't understand her and is in really no position to punish her in any way that is going to stick with Val. To make Sue's position worse, Doom actually sort of is able to discipline Val and reason with her in a way Sue never will be able to.
    he is to Valeria what Mephisto is to him
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
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  2. #137
    Astonishing Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post

    Of course Val likes Doom more! Doom encourages her and wants her to be the best little genius she can be, while Sue can't understand her and is in really no position to punish her in any way that is going to stick with Val. To make Sue's position worse, Doom actually sort of is able to discipline Val and reason with her in a way Sue never will be able to.
    A lot of my problems with Valeria would be solved if writers actually wrote her like an intelligent child rather than a small adult. She should should have childlike qualities like having tantrums when she doesn't get her way, being unable to pronounce the big words she tries to say, being obsessed with ponies or something. She needs qualities like these as while she may be very intelligent for her age, she should be as emotionally developed as any other 3-5 year old.
    There are also examples of media that does it right like with Stewie on Family Guy or Lisa on the Simpsons.
    Last edited by Crimz; 03-12-2018 at 08:27 PM.
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  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ray View Post
    It's very simple: Doom once kidnapped her brother and put the kid in Hell.

    You know what Hell is? A realm of evil and suffering and nothing more. Literally the worse imaginable place. Putting someone there is the single worst thing you can do to anyone, and he did that to a child, her brother.

    So, imagine someone doing something really, really awful to a child. So, what Doom did to her brother is WORSE than that.

    I am already supposed to believe that the incredibly smart Valeria sees nothing wrong with being a violent despot. But am I also supposed to believe that the incredibly smart Valeria Richards sees nothing wrong with kidnapping and putting your brother in hell? Something that Doom used to be able to torture her whole family? She is so smart, so inteligent, that she sees some kind of noble act in submitting her family to torture and suffering that us, mere dumb mortals, cannot hope to see?

    Am I supposed to see that as good writing?
    Oh no..I love how close Val c
    is with Doom. Another good thing is he can't just talk to her the way he does everyone else.
    Last edited by JasonEsta; 03-12-2018 at 08:40 PM.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Yeah I never liked the val likes doom plot. Doom set her mother on fire in front of her and had her watch. Most kids would not be happy about that.

    It's one of the things I hated about the later run ff.
    When the hell was this? Sounds absurd. Lmao!!

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    It just more of the "Doom is not really a bad guy he is just misunderstood" crap that has ruined Doom as a character for the last 15 years. Writers like Doom and bend over backwards to try and find reason for him to be a good guy instead of a villain. Sort of the same thing they do with Mystique in the X-men books. No matter how many truly evil things they do they still try and make them anti-heroes, and it just ruins the character.
    Well there is a probem here..in Children's Crusade, let's be honest..it seemed like Doom really wanted to marry Wanda. They had him flip in the end but Wanda, even after getting her memories back, was willing to marry him. There should of been a follow up to what they were doing in Latveria after he found her.

  6. #141
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    Reed lobotomized Franklin once upon a time. I would have to say that's pretty bad parenting.
    There are many examples that can be selected to show Reed and Sue as less than fit parents. This is not one of them. In many cases, a parent needs to make a deciusion about a child to prevent that child from causing harm. In the real world, it's often something like turning them in when they find drugs or weapons. As melodramatic as I found the scene even back when I first read it a long time ago, Reed and Sue were parental and in character. The scene's been discussed before; I'm sure it will be discussed again.

  7. #142
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    then why was he using his position to pressure villagers into pleasuring him? and before anyone suggests that they could have resisted, please consider the leverage that he enters the equation with.
    Doom tried forcing himself on someone?!?! I didn't know this. That's beyond messed up.
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

  8. #143
    Fantastic Member The Ray's Avatar
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    Funny that F4 books actually recognized that this situation is quite strange.



    Sadly, the best answer the smartest man in the world could give was "We, as parents, trust our 3 years old toddler to take care of herself".

    They lost the case, obviously.

  9. #144
    Astonishing Member Abe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ray View Post
    Funny that F4 books actually recognized that this situation is quite strange.



    Sadly, the best answer the smartest man in the world could give was "We, as parents, trust our 3 years old toddler to take care of herself".

    They lost the case, obviously.
    To be fair do not forget to precise that iirc in the same issue Robinson writes Vic and Val heroin together and that the prosecutor is the Quiet Man... You know that villain whose history starts with him falling in love for Sue and who never coukd accept that Reed got her...
    - To Tammy and the Blue Rose !

  10. #145
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ray View Post
    Okay.

    How about the part that Doom has dedicated decades of his life to destroy her family for petty reasons, going as far as to torture her brother when he was litle more than a toddler? Why can't the genial Valeria sees he wrongness of that, when even a dumb guy like me can?
    Doom is more like Valís uncle, and kids have an affection for uncles, despite stories of him being in the bad books for some reason. Val may not be that cogent of all Dooms eccentricities. And another thing, didnít Doom put a spell on Valeria at birth? That may have altered Valís affections towards Doom somehow, so she may be hexed to like him.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Doom is more like Val’s uncle, and kids have an affection for uncles, despite stories of him being in the bad books for some reason. Val may not be that cogent of all Dooms eccentricities. And another thing, didn’t Doom put a spell on Valeria at birth? That may have altered Val’s affections towards Doom somehow, so she may be hexed to like him.
    I feel like this is a possibility we don't consider. And Doom wouldn't even think that he'd be doing anything wrong.

  12. #147
    Mighty Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    When the hell was this? Sounds absurd. Lmao!!
    Unthinkable where doom kills his love and wears her skin as his new armor!
    [IMG][/IMG]
    Last edited by Gaastra; 03-13-2018 at 05:09 AM.

  13. #148
    Astonishing Member theoneandonly's Avatar
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    if it was the 80s of 90s then undoubtedly doom would have revealed that Valeria isn't a real person but a construct of magic made from part of his soul or alternatively he had ensorcelled her to be a magical weapon to used against her family when the time was right like having her possessed by a demon to attack the FF and to banish the demon they will have to kill her or die themselves. Bendis would use it for FF disassembled if he was still at marvel and then make the ghost Rider spider man hulk and wolverine join to form a new FF.
    The Self is the only existing reality

  14. #149
    Mighty Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    The OP wants to make this about "what bad parents Reed and Sue are" and "What an evil child Valeria is". But I think this is actually a case of writers writing them out of character to fit the story they want to tell. It has happened or is yet to happen to every character in long running comics like these.
    We have a winner! However, it is also a problem when certain folks constantly goad arguments with these not very valid characterizations.

    Next thing you know someone will call out the Android Torch for killing Hitler - not giving him a fair trial!

  15. #150
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    I'm just surprised we're focusing on Unthinkable of all things cause while its pretty good it does kind of shit the bed on characterizations to tell the story it wants. Kind of like that other story with Doom and that peasant girl. Doom just does it because he's the villain that can be defeated by a blind man throwing nets, and a bomb that can't burn hotter than the Human torch but can apparently trash Doom chest armor that he has to discard it.
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

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