Is so stupid that Valeria Richards hangs out with Dr. Doom...

[Iron Maiden]

In Doctor Strange #26 we saw villain Val. In future with mad celestials, ok she was kinda "good", i would rather say neutral, but this story was about galaxy disaster and survival as such, here is not about who is good or who is bad. Also for me being "cop or robber" its too plain for her character. At a live Doom, I do not think that he allowed her to be a villain or even a hero. Just sit there we'll do everything ourselves. During the Axis it was certainly an inverted Doom, but he did not know that she wore his armor, he would have chastised her for overconfidence.

And I'm positive that the Valeria in Doctor Strange was an alternate version of her. It's hard to say what the current state of the Multiverse is since Secret Wars since my interpretation was that Reed, Franklin and the Molecule Man were recreating everything from scratch. Earth Prime's Val is with her family.

I don't think Doom would want her in any armor either. He had enough problems when Kristoff was in that situation. John Byrne has always said that the Doombots began to act independently once Doom's body was disintegrated in Fantastic Four #260. It wasn't Doom's intention for Kristoff to end up as a mini-Doom. Byrne didn't stay long enough on the Fantastic Four to finish it up since he went over to DC, but he had this to say...

It's too late for someone to steal this story now, I suppose.

I intended Doom to return to Latvaria and absolutely FREAK OUT when he discovered what his robots had done to Kristoff. Basically -- he'd need a whole lot of new robots by the time he calmed down. And then he would devote a whole lot of time and energy to restoring Kristoff. (I had not decided if he would be successful. Part of my brain wanted him to realize he needed the help of the other smartest guy on the planet -- and there was no way he could ever go there!)

[CaptCleghorn]

No future version of any character is definite. If the story is a good one, every future version of a character teaches us something about the character. With Val, Captain Obvious called and says something's funny going on with her birth and Doom. Will the eight years on battle world even show up at all in Sue or the kids' memories? And if so, how?

With the Richards family, I have strong opinions. And my opinions can differ from even those people whose opinions and comments I respect. All we have is a silhouette of an seemingly older Valeria. We will speculate; it's what we do.

I think Val's the darkest of the main six cast members. Is that Doom's birth influence? Is it Doom's life experience with her? Is it just the way her nature and nurture rolled? I can't even decide if Val's tendencies pre Secret Wars are an attempt to put extreme intelligence with very youthful immaturity or just laziness in writing her as a brainy adult. I'm leaning towards the latter, but some of the comments I've seen about development at that age seem to fit her.

In any case, I doubt we'll ever see Val become an adult, excpet in another future story. And future stories are often coming from very different places.

#wheretheFismyFF?

[AcesX1X]

In any case, I doubt we'll ever see Val become an adult, excpet in another future story. And future stories are often coming from very different places.

#wheretheFismyFF?

maybe i am remembering wrong, but i could have sworn there was preview art for the new ff where franklin and val are aged up

[CaptCleghorn]

maybe i am remembering wrong, but i could have sworn there was preview art for the new ff where franklin and val are aged up

Lot of room between a young child and an adult. The belief is that the kids are older than they were pre-Secret Wars but still kids.

[Iron Maiden]

I sometimes wish we could have two labels of Marvel again with the MC2 universe that included May Parker as Spider-Girl and the Fantastic Five that featured an adult Kristoff. It also featured Johnny and Lyja as a married couple along with Ben and Sharon Ventura. They have a son called Jacob. There was also the A-Next title that had Cassie Lang as Stinger.

The next generation of the MU could be quite interesting I think and I would like to see Hickman's adult Franklin and Valeria added to it as a mini series. You could also add Nadia van Dyne

AcesXIX, here is that image that was shown to the vendors last week. Bleeding Cool had a picture from the presentation

[CaptCleghorn]

It also featured Johnny and Lyja as a married couple along with Ben and Sharon Ventura. They have a son called Jacob.

I feel I'm in a minority when I think both Lyja and Sharon should be farmed out. Robinson's run painted Sharon with a very dark brush. If it wasn't for that., sure, i could accept her, but now she's become a cheap thug. And Lyja, yuck. I know it's considered a good quality to forgive transgressions, but marrying me under a false identity and nearly costing me my closest friendship would make me a person who's very unlikely to forgive. Not to mention what Lyja did to Alicia and her name during her stint.

[Kayiro]

Marvel can do everything in his own way, but in Marvel Legacy we were shown children of about the same age as they were before. Also, despite the fact that some authors do not know how to see the battle world, but it was an alternative family, which later disappeared at the end. Reed resurrected his realy family and decided to "rest."

[Michael Watkins]

hmm but victor would never hurt valeria. she is his goddaughter after all, correct?

Last issue of Fraction's FF run

[Michael Watkins]

Sure. That was exactly the plot behind "All hope lies in Doom". So Mary-Sue-ish. So lame and predictable. He saves the day all by himself. That's it!

He did save the day didn't he? And reed and company were made to look bad.

[Abe]

He did save the day didn't he? And reed and company were made to look bad.

He bought them some time- but that's all he did dealing with the Celestials. He didnt destroy any. Johnny, Sue - so great!- and Franklin didn't look bad at all! About Reed it's something different : it's the story of the Council of Reeds after all. But I won't say that he looked bad.

Of course you're free to do not like the story - but it's not Mary Sue Doom saving the day all alone. He was manipulated. It's about his will and his Oppenheimer-thing. Where hubris can be useful. Not the same stuff imho.

[Iron Maiden]

He bought them sone time- but that's all he did dealing with the Celestials. He didnt destroy any. Johnny, Sue - so great!- and Franklin didn't look bad at all! About Reed it's something different : it's the story of the Council of Reeds after all. But I won't say that he looked bad.

Of course you're free to do not like the story - but it's not Mary Sue Doom saving the day all alone. He was manipulated. It's about his will and his Oppenheimer-thing. Where hubris can be useful. Not the same stuff imho.

The big action did take place when the Celestials came to Earth after being delayed the required amount of time by Doom. A lot of people pitched in. I think Namor was there
.....and baby Annihilus. In the meantime, Doom found the Infinity Gauntlets that Val told him about in the ruins of the of the Citadel of the Council of Reeds.

[Michael Watkins]

He bought them some time- but that's all he did dealing with the Celestials. He didnt destroy any. Johnny, Sue - so great!- and Franklin didn't look bad at all! About Reed it's something different : it's the story of the Council of Reeds after all. But I won't say that he looked bad.

Of course you're free to do not like the story - but it's not Mary Sue Doom saving the day all alone. He was manipulated. It's about his will and his Oppenheimer-thing. Where hubris can be useful. Not the same stuff imho.

think about it. he's their greatest enemy and he is made to be absolutely essential to their survival. it's not about saving the day all alone. it's about them needing him (and not the other way around). do you see how they avoided Doom losing face?
https://i.imgur.com/LSPb8Ra.jpg

[Abe]

think about it. he's their greatest enemy and he is made to be absolutely essential to their survival. it's not about saving the day all alone. it's about them needing him (and not the other way around). do you see how they avoided Doom losing face?
https://i.imgur.com/LSPb8Ra.jpg

I agree with all that. And I think it's a cool story. But I don't see how that makes the others look bad, even if I try to think hard about it - and that was your previous point... I guess made to go back once more to the Mary Sue discussion. (A concept and a discussion that really doesn't interest me to be honest).

My conclusion is that you didn't liked that story. I'm okay with that you know. To each is own. Is there anything else to say? Wouldn't it be pointless?

Maybe you could think about it too.

[Crimz]

think about it. he's their greatest enemy and he is made to be absolutely essential to their survival. it's not about saving the day all alone. it's about them needing him (and not the other way around). do you see how they avoided Doom losing face?
https://i.imgur.com/LSPb8Ra.jpg

That happens a bit too often if you ask me...

No wonder many people say the villains are better than the FF, they are often treated better.

[Marvel Forever]

I actually favor Valeria's hanging out with Doc Doom. I think that she is responsible for the change in his behavior.