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  1. #16
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Yet they both represent the themes of envy and wrath.

    I think people overestimate Priscilla Rich's "mental instability." Yes, she legitimately had schizophrenia, but she also did commit acts of crime simply because it made her feel better due to her inferiority complex. And she was just as crafty and evil as post-Crisis Barbara Ann.
    Unfortunately Priscilla Rich was as dangerous as trying to stab Wonder Woman with a a toothpick she had no powers and only wore a cat suit she would be more at home with Batman than Wonder Woman. Which in this day and age would be laughed at a lot.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Unfortunately Priscilla Rich was as dangerous as trying to stab Wonder Woman with a a toothpick she had no powers and only wore a cat suit she would be more at home with Batman than Wonder Woman. Which in this day and age would be laughed at a lot.
    I disagree with this argument. If Lex Luthor can be seen as an actual threat to Superman despite being as dangerous to him physically as trying to stab him with a toothpick, then so can Cheetah for Wonder Woman. Fans hear the name Lex Luthor and automatically take him very seriously as a credible threat to Superman despite him being human, I wish that they'd do the same for Cheetah.
    Last edited by 7-Love; 03-13-2018 at 09:28 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7-Love View Post
    I disagree with this argument. If Lex Luthor can be seen as an actual threat to Superman despite being as dangerous to him physically as trying to stab him with a toothpick, then so can Cheetah for Wonder Woman. Fans hear the name Lex Luthor and automatically take him very seriously as a credible threat to Superman despite him being human, I wish that they'd do the same for Cheetah.
    Unfortunately in regards to Priscilla Rich while she may have the smarts the problem is direct confrontation Luthor has the benefit of creating powered suits that sometimes have Kryptonite in them Priscilla Rich didn't have anything like if you put her in a direct confrontation Diana should snap her like a twig. Barbara Ann Minerva on the other hand has the benefit of having smarts and strength which make her more of a credible threat than her predecessors.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Unfortunately in regards to Priscilla Rich while she may have the smarts the problem is direct confrontation Luthor has the benefit of creating powered suits that sometimes have Kryptonite in them Priscilla Rich didn't have anything like if you put her in a direct confrontation Diana should snap her like a twig. Barbara Ann Minerva on the other hand has the benefit of having smarts and strength which make her more of a credible threat than her predecessors.
    Priscilla had the smarts and cunning to determine that the magic girdle powered the Amazons, and then was stealthy enough to steal it from the Amazon guards. It allowed her to fight Wonder Woman one-on-one.

    She was also stealthy enough to steal the magic lasso and use that to enhance the chains Wonder Woman was bound in during the charity show, nearly drowning her.

    She was cunning enough to impersonate her own cousin and trick Wonder Woman and her fiends into a death trap.

    She might not have been a genius inventor, but she was driven enough that she became a real threat.

  5. #20
    Blue Snowmod Nyssane's Avatar
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    Except in most of her golden age appearances, Cheetah held her own against Diana using agility and cunning. She even stole Hippolyta's girdle which allowed her the upper hand against Diana. She certainly wasn't Lex Luthor's equal but she was formidable for the time period. And I doubt many people are arguing for a power decrease by reverting Cheetah back to Priscilla Rich.

    I just personally think of the characters as being Cheetah rather than two individual characters since they are incredibly similar. My favorite part of the New 52 Cheetah is that they merged all of the past Cheetahs' names (hopefully they'll reveal Barbara Ann has used them as aliases in her adventures post-Rebirth).

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Unfortunately in regards to Priscilla Rich while she may have the smarts the problem is direct confrontation Luthor has the benefit of creating powered suits that sometimes have Kryptonite in them Priscilla Rich didn't have anything like if you put her in a direct confrontation Diana should snap her like a twig. Barbara Ann Minerva on the other hand has the benefit of having smarts and strength which make her more of a credible threat than her predecessors.
    Priscilla was upgraded fairly easily as a threat in Alex Ross's Justice, where she explicitly performed a ritual to become the Cheetah when her darker side took over. She had powers in that version, it just wasn't accompanied by a physical transformation into a beast. Her eyes did glow a bit though and took on a cat-like appearance, implying some magic as involved. She was also resourceful enough to get a powerful poison from Persephone and actually succeeded in killing Diana, albeit briefly.

  7. #22
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanT View Post
    Priscilla had the smarts and cunning to determine that the magic girdle powered the Amazons, and then was stealthy enough to steal it from the Amazon guards. It allowed her to fight Wonder Woman one-on-one.

    She was also stealthy enough to steal the magic lasso and use that to enhance the chains Wonder Woman was bound in during the charity show, nearly drowning her.

    She was cunning enough to impersonate her own cousin and trick Wonder Woman and her fiends into a death trap.

    She might not have been a genius inventor, but she was driven enough that she became a real threat.
    Yeah that may have worked in the past when the old rules established by Marston were in effect but in this day and age where the rules for Wonder Woman have changed a lot all those feat would be hard to replicate if one so chooses to revive Priscilla Rich.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  8. #23
    Blue Snowmod Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Priscilla was upgraded fairly easily as a threat in Alex Ross's Justice, where she explicitly performed a ritual to become the Cheetah when her darker side took over. She had powers in that version, it just wasn't accompanied by a physical transformation into a beast. Her eyes did glow a bit though and took on a cat-like appearance, implying some magic as involved. She was also resourceful enough to get a powerful poison from Persephone and actually succeeded in killing Diana, albeit briefly.
    I love the Justice version so much.

    I feel like the original Priscilla Rich also had a bit of mystic abilities (though how is anyone's guess). She falls supposedly to her death into a burning building, but then later claims that the skin she wears protects her from fire and that her agility outmatches Diana's strength. What kind of cheetah skin would protect someone from fire and allow them to survive a burning building?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Yeah that may have worked in the past when the old rules established by Marston were in effect but in this day and age where the rules for Wonder Woman have changed a lot all those feat would be hard to replicate if one so chooses to revive Priscilla Rich.
    You're very focused on the idea of Priscilla returning when nobody in this thread has said that the Cheetah character should regress back to her power levels of the 40's. We're all just pointing out that the 40's Cheetah was not the "weakest villain ever" that you're making her out to be.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Priscilla was upgraded fairly easily as a threat in Alex Ross's Justice, where she explicitly performed a ritual to become the Cheetah when her darker side took over. She had powers in that version, it just wasn't accompanied by a physical transformation into a beast. Her eyes did glow a bit though and took on a cat-like appearance, implying some magic as involved. She was also resourceful enough to get a powerful poison from Persephone and actually succeeded in killing Diana, albeit briefly.
    It's strange that no one considered thinking of that back then instead George Perez invented a new Cheetah. Though one of the bigger issues is how does Cheetah challenge Diana idealistically?
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    It's strange that no one considered thinking of that back then instead George Perez invented a new Cheetah. Though one of the bigger issues is how does Cheetah challenge Diana idealistically?
    Writers love to disregard what has gone before and do their own versions.

    I liked the little I saw of Priscilla. To me, she seemed like a very dangerous enemy and one you never know what they are capable of doing. Very cunning.

    I also like the Barbara version.

    Perhaps the best and deadliest version would be combining all the previous ones into Cheetah!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Writers love to disregard what has gone before and do their own versions.

    I liked the little I saw of Priscilla. To me, she seemed like a very dangerous enemy and one you never know what they are capable of doing. Very cunning.

    I also like the Barbara version.

    Perhaps the best and deadliest version would be combining all the previous ones into Cheetah!
    Or you could use all four and make them some sort of Cheetah pack. My pal Nightdreamer loves weird.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 03-13-2018 at 11:07 AM.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Perez changed/reimagined a ton of Wonder foes from their original selves - Cheetah, Doctor Psycho, Circe, and Silver Swan.
    Last edited by WonderScott; 03-13-2018 at 02:15 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    You're very focused on the idea of Priscilla returning when nobody in this thread has said that the Cheetah character should regress back to her power levels of the 40's. We're all just pointing out that the 40's Cheetah was not the "weakest villain ever" that you're making her out to be.
    Yes I understand but i was just thinking of how Priscilla would stack up to Barbara Ann Minerva.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Perez changed/reimagined a ton of Wonder foes from their original selves - Cheetah, Doctor Psycho, Circe, and Silver Swan.
    Yeah he did but the guy above me wants all the Cheetahs to be meshed into one.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Well, it seems that the DCnU Cheetah has been tossed out the window with her various aliases as Priscilla Rich, Deborah Domaine, and Sabrina Ballesteros, which was a nice nod to previous versions at the time.

    Rebirth Barbara doesn't seem like the type to have had fake identities in the past, but we'll see what happens in her future chararization. Like Cale, it's going to take a great creative idea to turn her into a full-tilt boogie villain after being a sympathetic character most recently.

    I can see some overlap between the Perez Barbara Minerva and Marston/Bronze Age Priscilla Rich. Some superficial, one comes from English royalty of sorts and the other's a monied American socialite. And both have devious and cunning natures. Some more serious, one is often trapped in a curse by Urzkartaga and the other is challenged by mental health issues. (Although there's an argument for what happens to one's mental health when becoming the bride of Urzie or forced back into the role of Cheetah by a ruthless businessvillainess.)

    It'll be interesting to see where they take Barbara and her motives now. One avenue could be that now that Urzie is defeated she can come into her own as Cheetah and what that means for her human self and Cheetah self - if the two both exist at this point. Right now she kind of stands alone as a Wonder foe, having antagonistic feelings towards both Diana and Veronica for different reasons, as well as her own self-loathing. That status of her feelings has some aspects or echoes of Priscilla Rich I guess.

    It's interesting that Diana's dealing with multiple characters that have abandonment issues with her - Cheetah, Silver Swan, and to some degree Jason in some issues. I wonder if any writer will pick up that affect she has on people in a future story. Not that I'm blaming her for those characters's feelings and actions, but it's interesting that Diana is such a light and special personality to people when she meets them, that some of them feel such longing for her friendship and participation in their lives that they feel extra empty without her presence in their lives. It's like she augments a person's self-confidence and "specialness" when she's around and they can't quite deal with reality when she's called off for other adventures.

    The downside of being an incredible person and friend, perhaps, and the sometimes ugliness that happens when it's denied someone or that relationship changes for some people.

    Definitely some Marstonian psychology to consider in that state of affairs.

    :: puts on thinking cap to ponder that idea some more ::

    (Also, this probably a better, on topic response to a Barbara Minerva or general Cheetah Appreciation thread.)
    Last edited by WonderScott; 03-14-2018 at 09:47 AM.

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