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  1. #1
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Default What past mistakes by our heroes should survive in the newest DCU history?

    As we find ourselves on the cusp on another revamp of the DCU's ongoing history, what parts of the past continuity that are less flattering towards our beloved heroes should remain a part of their backstories?

    If Green Arrow & Black Canary's prior knowledge of their tumultuous romance, marriage and divorce is restored, should Ollie's repeated and callous infidelities and betrayals of Dinah be brought back, too? Or would that, as Gail Simone rightly pointed out, only serve to make Dinah look like a fool for continuously forgiving him for cheating on her.

    Should the memory of Superman choosing to execute the Pocket Universe Zod, Faora & Jax-Ur for committing genocide of an entire Earth be a part of his history because it made him resolve to never take a life again? Or should it be conveniently ignored and washed away by the ever-present waves of continuity revamps?

    What about Batman's more egregious examples of douchebaggery from his Pre-Flashpoint days? Should all that be restored as a part of his backstory, or should it be forgotten to keep him somewhat sympathetic to readers? Or is it more important to allow his past misteps remain so that we can see his growth into a better man?

    I've heard some complain that John Stewart's failure to prevent the destruction of Xanshi be retconned away, but isn't it better that it remain so it can be a valuable lesson to him?

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    With regards to Ollie's old cheating habits I find it somewhat odd because originally Shado raped Ollie but then it was retconned into actual affair and Ollie was nothing short of devoted to Dinah but that went to the wayside by writers who saw fit to go against that characterisation. And thanks to how much of a mess that was I'd say I'd rather not see that happen again because it was just nonsensical.
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  3. #3
    Chosen One Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I've heard some complain that John Stewart's failure to prevent the destruction of Xanshi be retconned away, but isn't it better that it remain so it can be a valuable lesson to him?
    It should be done away with. It was a plot intended for Guy Gardner, and when the writer couldn't use Guy for reasons, he dumbly plugged in another character for which the entire thing is grossly ot of character.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I've heard some complain that John Stewart's failure to prevent the destruction of Xanshi be retconned away, but isn't it better that it remain so it can be a valuable lesson to him?
    I think here you have also the problem that this was part of a bigger event, and you also need to consider if you want to keep the event in canon (or if you retcon the events that lead to the destruction).

  5. #5
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    In Green Lantern, everything that has ever made Hal, Guy, John or Kyle look bad. Everything.

    Now one or two people might object by saying, "But that's what makes them interesting." Yeah, well, if they're so interesting, them why are their sales so awful? The market doesn't seem find them very interesting at all, does it? You shouldn't make a character look bad and then be shocked when he can't sell a comic. Except maybe on Bizarro World. That approach might work there.

    This is one more good reason out of many to give Green Lantern its first reboot ever.
    Last edited by Trey Strain; 03-14-2018 at 03:36 AM.

  6. #6
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    The rule should be, don't do anything to any other hero that you wouldn't do to Batman.

  7. #7
    Mighty Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    The rule should be, don't do anything to any other hero that you wouldn't do to Batman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    It should be done away with. It was a plot intended for Guy Gardner, and when the writer couldn't use Guy for reasons, he dumbly plugged in another character for which the entire thing is grossly ot of character.
    All of this.

    Can't think of any tbh. A lot of mistakes were something i don't want to see again.

  8. #8
    Chosen One Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    The rule should be, don't do anything to any other hero that you wouldn't do to Batman.
    Paradox ensues.

    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    It should be done away with. It was a plot intended for Guy Gardner, and when the writer couldn't use Guy for reasons, he dumbly plugged in another character for which the entire thing is grossly ot of character.
    I totally agree. That story became his most defining arc, and regurgitated over & over during the Johns' run.

  10. #10
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    I guess I'd add the mindwipes from Identity Crisis.

    Does Bruce not letting the Joker get fried on the Electric Chair count?


    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Paradox ensues.

    To be fair


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    To be fair

    Geoff Johns should have let Guy flatten Batman. But no, it had to be Hal.

  12. #12
    Not a member BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Things that come should remain:

    Green Arrows infidelities: I get what Gail is saying and I kind of agree, but Ollie is flawed as hell and relationships are messy as fuck.

    Batman's Douchebaggeries: Maybe it should be toned down or condensed a little, but I feel that Batman works best when he is trusted because of his competence than trustworthiness in itself. As brilliant as Bruce is, he is also a troubled, obsessive maniac and emotionally a child. He should strike some unintended fear in the hearts of his allies as well, with the exception of his closest allies.

    Wonder Woman's killing Max Lord: Controversial, but but when it comes down to it I think that Diana is the one above the Rabble.

    Things that should be gone:

    Destruction of Xanshi: As previously stated, it wasn't even supposed to be a John story. No reason for it to define him, and it's too easy for writers to use it as an excuse for having John mope around.

    The murdering of the GLC: The whole Parallax possession/destruction of the Corps/etc can remain. But Jordan 1)wouldn't, 2)wouldn't be able to and 3)wouldn't want to flat out kill his corpsmates, possession or not. Retcon that for him takin their rings and exiling most of them.

    Identity Crisis mindwipes. Or identity Crisis as a whole: I like Identity Crisis for what it is: a deconstruction type story, and all that. But I don't want the Justice League lobotomizing people or Sue Dibny being raped to be in continuity. Just.... no.

    Batman being sucker punched by Jordan, of all people: Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in favor of having Batman look like a fool in that particular story. But bat-people being decked by non-bat people has just to be made correctly. And pretty boy Jordan is not the one to pull it off. (*Jordan's "fighting prowess" is abusrd in itself. If there's one thing that breaks my suspension of disbelief, it's that...)

    This shit:



    Yes, Bats should be badass. No, most non powered people shouldn't be able to get at him, at least not easily. But throwing sand in the Flash's face, tying Green Lantern's hand and punching Wonder-Woman in the face? Oh, PLEASE!

    Superman's execution of Zod and others: Screw Byrne's Superman, actually. That's it.
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  13. #13
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    It should be done away with. It was a plot intended for Guy Gardner, and when the writer couldn't use Guy for reasons, he dumbly plugged in another character for which the entire thing is grossly ot of character.
    I should note when we agree as we often have different opinions about comics. I support this idea 100%.

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I say you keep it all.

    Hal going crazy. Bruce being an emotionally abusive control freak. Diana killing Max Lord. Clark killing all the people he's killed. Arthur and Mera's various break-ups and Arthur's various periods of broody depression.

    You keep it all, and you make it work for you.

    Fans aren't going to forget. Even if DC pretends that (for example) Zatanna never mind-wiped Batman, that's going to be in the back of our minds and it will impact and influence how we see Zee, no matter what DC says "really" happened. So instead of ignoring it, make it work for you. Mistakes and flaws are the fertilizer that great characters grow (and continue to grow) from.

    I'd rather have Zee say "I hate that I did this to Bruce, and I have learned about myself and grown as a person and won't make that mistake again!" than say "Mindwipe Bruce? Why, I'd never do that! What would give you such a crazy notion?" and have DC tell me that various stories happened in a different way than they actually did.

    If you're going to change your stories around and pretend they didn't happen the way you wrote them and you won't use those to build from, then what's the point of continuity in the first place?
    Last edited by Ascended; 03-14-2018 at 12:24 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Things that come should remain:

    Green Arrows infidelities: I get what Gail is saying and I kind of agree, but Ollie is flawed as hell and relationships are messy as fuck.
    Eh, there’s messy and there’s “Charlie Harper from Two and a Half Men”. Mind you, this one is due to writers not knowing the difference between consensual sex and rape. It would be like deeming Dick sex hound after what Tarantule did to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Batman's Douchebaggeries: Maybe it should be toned down or condensed a little, but I feel that Batman works best when he is trusted because of his competence than trustworthiness in itself. As brilliant as Bruce is, he is also a troubled, obsessive maniac and emotionally a child. He should strike some unintended fear in the hearts of his allies as well, with the exception of his closest allies.
    This I more or less agree with depending on execution.

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Wonder Woman's killing Max Lord: Controversial, but but when it comes down to it I think that Diana is the one above the Rabble.
    Um, this one wasn’t a mistake. As for the last bit.



    Things that should be gone:

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Destruction of Xanshi: As previously stated, it wasn't even supposed to be a John story. No reason for it to define him, and it's too easy for writers to use it as an excuse for having John mope around.

    The murdering of the GLC: The whole Parallax possession/destruction of the Corps/etc can remain. But Jordan 1)wouldn't, 2)wouldn't be able to and 3)wouldn't want to flat out kill his corpsmates, possession or not. Retcon that for him takin their rings and exiling most of them.

    Identity Crisis mindwipes. Or identity Crisis as a whole: I like Identity Crisis for what it is: a deconstruction type story, and all that. But I don't want the Justice League lobotomizing people or Sue Dibny being raped to be in continuity. Just.... no.
    These I agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Batman being sucker punched by Jordan, of all people: Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in favor of having Batman look like a fool in that particular story. But bat-people being decked by non-bat people has just to be made correctly. And pretty boy Jordan is not the one to pull it off. (*Jordan's "fighting prowess" is abusrd in itself. If there's one thing that breaks my suspension of disbelief, it's that...)
    Don’t the GL rings increase physical stats?

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