Wonder Woman vs. Martian Manhunter H2H

[Supergoblin64]

Current versions. Diana doesn't have any equipment except tiara and bracelets. J'onn can't use telepathy, telekinesis, intangibility, or shapeshifting.

Purely hand-to-hand, though Manhunter can use martian vision.

Who takes this?

[rhyvurg]

This depends on how close J'onn is to Superman in terms of speed and strength. He's generally in the same neighborhood, but if he's functionally equal Diana's going to have some problems. Because when people as tough as Superman stop playing nice, Diana breaks bones hitting them.

[Nik Hasta]

I'll admit that I'm a bit behind on current DC but, barring him initially throwing down with the League before he established himself as a hero, I think J'onn has taken a bit of a physical nerf in favour of more esoteric uses of his telepathy and shapeshifting. I might be off on that because I don't know what Rebirth did to J'onn if anything.

Post Crisis J'onn was much closer to Superman in terms of stats and could likely take Wondy in a physical altercation.

[Captain Morgan]

Eh, Nu J'onn helped Superman move ship that was larger than the Earth. I don't know that he's got much for speed but he doesn't seem lacking in raw physicality.

[Pendaran]

If he doesn't have much for speed, he's going to have problems here under those restrictions. Getting blitzed to eff shaped problems.

[Captain Morgan]

If he doesn't have much for speed, he's going to have problems here under those restrictions. Getting blitzed to eff shaped problems.

Well, where are we pegging Nu Diana for speed? I've seen her bullet time and do some other low level speedster stuff, but the best I've seen for most of her performances involves fighting kryptonians or Green Lanterns.

I guess she does have deflecting the omega beams, which earlier in the story winded the Flash trying to outrun them and Superman failed to outrun them at all... Which could suggest her "Dare Devil to Superman's Quicksilver" status carried over or something.

Edit: and where do we spot her for strength and durability too, I guess, cuz I haven't seen her bench planets either.

[Pendaran]

Well, her entire Azarello run got retconned, so... no idea actually, honestly.

If she in all this time otherwise doesn't especially have much speed feats to her name beyond some bullet time+ stuff, it is what it is.

[LordAllMIghty]

I'm gonna go with Diana, just because of fighting skill.

[The Dork Knight]

Well current WW wins just by virtue of having actual feats. J'onn jonnz has showed up for like one issue post Rebirth

Post crisis either way. The same arguments that can be made for J'onn can be made for Diana. Actually WW is definitely more skilled so there's that though MMH has some regenerative ability

[Rightoya]

Post Crisis: Definitely Diana, in pure h2h would J'onn stand pretty much zero chance(especially if she has her tiara and bracelets).

New52: Hard to say.

Rebirth: Diana again, simply due to having actual feats.

[Rightoya]

This depends on how close J'onn is to Superman in terms of speed and strength. He's generally in the same neighborhood, but if he's functionally equal Diana's going to have some problems. Because when people as tough as Superman stop playing nice, Diana breaks bones hitting them.

What the hell are you even talking about, could it be that you're confusing Bruce with Diana?

Diana already hit Clark and also bloodlusted Clark countless of times, it did never hurt her but always him. In your scan is a bloodlusted Clark actively grabbing and squasing a weak spot(wrist), besides the fact that this fight was everything but pure h2h and Clark didn't even win in the end...

[Captain Morgan]

I don't think post crisis J'onn is really as strong or as durable as Clark anyway, without at least doing some stuff to amp his stats via shape-shifting. His speed feats are pretty comparable, but his best brick stuff has all been stuff Diana has done too. Which I suppose leaves room for skill to win the day.

[rhyvurg]

What the hell are you even talking about, could it be that you're confusing Bruce with Diana?

Diana already hit Clark and also bloodlusted Clark countless of times, it did never hurt her but always him. In your scan is a bloodlusted Clark actively grabbing and squasing a weak spot(wrist), besides the fact that this fight was everything but pure h2h and Clark didn't even win in the end...

I'm talking about exactly what happened in that scan. That's not bloodlust, that's Clark not seeing Diana, but Doomsday. The thing with that fight is, nothing Diana does to Clark matters, because he's not being allowed to fight her as he would knowing what she can do. Max Lord had Clark avoid letting her use the lasso, because he knew it could break his mind control, but he's not fast enough mentally to modify Clark's perceptions to adapt to things like her tiara, which is something Doomsday does not have, so he wouldn't even be able to perceive the attack while under the influence of the illusion. But because he sees her as Doomsday, he's not going to pull or roll with any punches. The circumstances of that fight disallow anything she does to him as a viable feat, but still allows what he does to her.

Also he didn't lose, she stalled him long enough to kill Max because she knew there was no other way to win.

[The Dork Knight]

I think the point being made here is that Diana didn't break her wrist punching Superman which is what your initial post made it sound like.

Because when people as tough as Superman stop playing nice, Diana breaks bones hitting them.

Superman broke it deliberately. It wasn't like she Hulk punching Surfer and going "ow" while massaging her fist as he doesn't even react, which would be closer to the kind of durability difference you'd need for punching someone and breaking your own bones as a consequence

[Carabas]

I'm talking about exactly what happened in that scan. That's not bloodlust, that's Clark not seeing Diana, but Doomsday. The thing with that fight is, nothing Diana does to Clark matters, because he's not being allowed to fight her as he would knowing what she can do. Max Lord had Clark avoid letting her use the lasso, because he knew it could break his mind control, but he's not fast enough mentally to modify Clark's perceptions to adapt to things like her tiara, which is something Doomsday does not have, so he wouldn't even be able to perceive the attack while under the influence of the illusion. But because he sees her as Doomsday, he's not going to pull or roll with any punches. The circumstances of that fight disallow anything she does to him as a viable feat, but still allows what he does to her.

Also he didn't lose, she stalled him long enough to kill Max because she knew there was no other way to win.

My god, how can one possibly misread so much about a scene. Everything you just said is wrong.