The sad state of Marvel's "Fresh Start" next to the "Distinguished Competition"

[ijacksparrow]

Rich makes a great point here:

Jim Cheung is the man to go to when revealing new line-ups of comics, it seems. Whether Marvel’s Fresh Starts or Nows – or in this case his new run with Scott Snyder on Justice League, to be relaunched with a new issue 1 to follow Snyder’s Metal and No Justice mini-series. Which is another impressive land grab for DC, pulling Cheung from Marvel’s contracts.

Source: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/0....ague-relaunch/

That's the sad state of Marvel Comics right now:



You'd expect that the artist behind the big splash promo for your latest initiative that is supposed to signal that Marvel back on the right track would be signing an exclusive with Marvel Comics. You'd expect to see Jim Cheung taking over The Avengers or even maybe Spider-Man or the X-Men. But no, DC Comics gets him. Marvel Comics is a running gag at this point, and while I'm excited for Snyder's and Cheung's Justice League and I'll be all over that, that's not precisely a great time to be a Marvel Comics fan, and this is upsetting me one hell fucking lot. I mean, look at this:



It's like DC Comics is literally trolling Marvel Comics at this point. You get an iconic team like this with Scott Snyder, Jim Cheung and Jorge Jiménez at helm and this is literally the hottest superhero team in the market. And I mean this with no disrespect to Jason Aaron and Ed McGuiness: I absolutely LOVE Jason Aaron's writing and I wanted him to take over The Avengers book for years now. I love Ed McGuinness and I'd be all over him getting to draw either Amazing Spider-Man or Deadpool again (that would be baller to have with Skottie Young's writing). But Jim Cheung's art screams A list while Ed's screams great artist to a solo run with a "fun" character. Ed's art while amazing, feels sort of wrong in what should be the flagship book. And if it wasn't just that, the Avengers new line up simply isn't doing the book any favors. You can't tell me that Snyder's and Cheung's line up isn't a lot more exciting and screaming flagship book than, well, this:



I get it that Marvel Comics is trying. But I'd be lying if I didn't say that what is holding me back of going with a DC Comics pull list is simply blind loyalism. I mean, I'm considering going full DC Comics. This would be an absolute NUTS idea back when Hickman took over The Avengers books and Marvel Comics was literally killing it. And doing something like that isn't something easy to me, I mean, Amazing Spider-Man I've been collecting literally for good part of the last 30 years. With Nick Spencer taking over, it feels like a sign, even.

Right now, considering the new books, my pull list looks like this:

DC:

Batman
Justice League
Mister Miracle
Doomsday Clock


Marvel:

Amazing Spider-Man (Nick Spencer is making me HATE the idea of buying my favorite comic. Thank you, Alonso and Brevoort)
The Avengers
Iron Man
Black Panther
Captain America
Thor
Wolverine
X-23
Duggan's Guardians
Domino
Deadpool
X-Men, if they get their shit together, maybe?

Yes, I'm still getting more Marvel Comics than DC Comics. But here's is where it gets complicated: I'd love to read Priest's Deathstroke if that run will keep going. I will probably be buying a shitload of DC's Black Label books as well. I might even check out Bendis Superman if that gets good reviews. DC Comics even without a relaunch just seems more exciting and appealing to me right now. I'm honestly torn between my brand loyality and the insane quality output from DC Comics right now.

TL;DR: I can see you are trying, Marvel Comics. I love you, but it's just not good enough just yet. I want you to get at least as exciting as DC Comics looks right now, but you'll need to try harder than that.

[Jabare]

I'd wait till the comics actually drop before I judge.


I think DC still has a lot to prove outside of Batman, as Marvel's been reigning supreme for several years now.

I admired DC's attempt with the New 52, but things never really clicked save for a few passing moments or arcs here and there

[ijacksparrow]

I'd wait till the comics actually drop before I judge.


I think DC still has a lot to prove outside of Batman, as Marvel's been reigning supreme for several years now.

I admired DC's attempt with the New 52, but things never really clicked save for a few passing moments or arcs here and there

Nah. DC Comics is simply at a better place creatively right now, and it shows. I'm WAY more hyped for what DC Comics is cooking right now than literally ANYTHING that Marvel Comics has announced. ANYTHING. And this didn't happen since at least the last century. Hell, I don't even think it has ever happened as hard as this. Marvel Comics right now reminds me the mess they were before Heroes Reborn AND during Heroes Reborn. It's just... gah. Depressing.

[Materiel]

I've always wondered what DC characters would look like with the same face.

I think DC still has a lot to prove outside of Batman, as Marvel's been reigning supreme for several years now.

I'd agree with that assessment.

[Thor-Ul]

I've always wondered what DC characters would look like with the same face.

The same faces from the Fresh Start image?

[XPac]

I think the bigger issue is really that both looks look exciting. I think Justice League and Avengers both seem like MUST READ books. And that's kinda cool.

I will say I'm a bit surprised to see Cheung on a monthly title. I always assumed he was a bit on the slow side, hence him largely doing mini's for marvel.

[Prof. Warren]

Nah. DC Comics is simply at a better place creatively right now, and it shows. I'm WAY more hyped for what DC Comics is cooking right now than literally ANYTHING that Marvel Comics has announced. ANYTHING. And this didn't happen since at least the last century. Hell, I don't even think it has ever happened as hard as this. Marvel Comics right now reminds me the mess they were before Heroes Reborn AND during Heroes Reborn. It's just... gah. Depressing.

I find DC almost completely unreadable.

I have a great, deep nostalgia for the characters so I'll give the books a shot every so often hoping to like what I see but the books with rare exception are always so thin and forgettable, it's like the equivalent of reading coloring books.

If you like them, great. But nothing DC puts out is enough to keep me interested as an adult fan. And the Black Label line seems just like an attempt at pushing comics that are cynically designed for their aging readership's inner "edgy" '90s teen rather than offering anything that might actually be mature.

And Scott Snyder on Justice League is not an incentive for me to buy that book, no matter who's drawing it. If anything, it's an instant turn off. I've been enjoying Priest's JL run - which is so unlike the rest of DC's line - but I'll jump ship once Snyder brings his infantile brand of scripting to the book. For whoever it appeals to, though, great.

We'll see how the books in Fresh Start actually are when they come out but at this point all I can say is that I'm excited by the majority of the creative teams announced.

Aaron on Avengers, Slott on Iron Man, Spencer on ASM, Coates on Cap, Young on Deadpool. I'm down for all of that. And the rest is promising as well.

How about we wait till the books come out and comment on their success or failure once we actually can form an opinion on the actual end product?

Speaking of end products, the fact that DC is unable to get their sh*t together with Doomsday Clock - the series that's supposed to answer all the questions about their new continuity that readers have been waiting on since May of 2016, a series that now won't finish now until sometime mid-2019 at best - while Marvel has a sixteen week weekly Avengers series that hasn't missed a beat yet, I think DC's looking like they have more to improve on at the moment.

[ijacksparrow]

...

You know that your posts are always expected on threads criticizing Marvel Comics current output and I barely even read them because they all read the same, right? Because honestly, I get it. You love Marvel Comics and they can do no wrong. You are in the minority of that thinking right now. And I really wish you weren't, but you are.

[Dr. Banner]

What a misleading thread... Not to mention that it's a complete lie.

[Prof. Warren]

You know that your posts are always expected on threads criticizing Marvel Comics current output and I barely even read them because they all read the same, right? Because honestly, I get it. You love Marvel Comics and they can do no wrong. You are in the minority of that thinking right now. And I really wish you weren't, but you are.

And you can prove you're in the majority because...?

For the record, I don't think Marvel can do no wrong. But the premise of your post is ridiculous.

To sum up: "I'm reading more Marvel than DC but Jim Chueng is going to draw a book for DC so, uh, isn't Marvel embarrassed?"

If Cheung actually had a book announced at Marvel and backed out for a gig at DC, that might be worth a raised eyebrow but this is not that situation.

[Thor-Ul]

You know that your posts are always expected on threads criticizing Marvel Comics current output and I barely even read them because they all read the same, right? Because honestly, I get it. You love Marvel Comics and they can do no wrong. You are in the minority of that thinking right now. And I really wish you weren't, but you are.

Relax. Prof. Warren always defends Marvel, whatever Marvel does. You must admire his dedication, yet not his coherence.

[Prof. Warren]

Also, do you understand that Dan Slott actually wanted to leave ASM after ten years?

Amazing Spider-Man (Nick Spencer is making me HATE the idea of buying my favorite comic. Thank you, Alonso and Brevoort)

When you say "thank you, Alonso and Brevoort," you act like they pushed him off of the book. Slott isn't supposed to write ASM for life just for your benefit. He choose to leave a book that he's written for an extraordinary long time.

As popular as Slott's run has been, I think most Spidey fans are eager to see new blood on the book.

[Pav]

You know that your posts are always expected on threads criticizing Marvel Comics current output and I barely even read them because they all read the same, right? Because honestly, I get it. You love Marvel Comics and they can do no wrong. You are in the minority of that thinking right now. And I really wish you weren't, but you are.

1) You are putting words in Prof's mouth, and that will not lead to productive conversing.

2) "You are in the minority..." - what poll did you run? How many people did you poll?

Oh, you didn't poll anybody; you're just being antagonistic towards someone who disagrees with you.

3. Why did you post this thread in the first place? Do you just want to complain with others who feel exactly as you do? If so, don't you have better things to do with your time? And if you can't handle people disagreeing with you, why post at all?

-Pav, who finds Prof to be a thoughtful, positive member of this forum...

Edit: the state of comic fandom is ugly because, in my opinion, too many people would rather bitch about what they dislike and hate on creators who make choices they dislike than actually discuss what they enjoy. I post here to talk with others about what I like. Because COMICS ARE FUN. If you aren't having fun, how often do the rest of us need to hear about it? Does it demand a new thread?

[Thursaiz]

For Marvel, it just feels like they are throwing everything at a wall to see what sticks. Why don't they just try another 'Falcon', 'Iron Fist' or 'She-Hulk' series to see if May 2018 is finally the year that they actually sell. The only Marvel book at the moment that has anyone even as remotely excited for DC's 'Metal' is Slott's finale of 'Amazing Spider-Man', and that has nothing to do with the "Fresh Start" promo. You know that your books are in a weird place when the futuristic Punisher/Ghost Rider is creating more hype than your new 'Avengers' title.

All of this "Fresh Start" stuff should be called what it is: a return of the characters that sell books in time for the new movie.

[Prof. Warren]

Relax. Prof. Warren always defends Marvel, whatever Marvel does. You must admire his dedication, yet not his coherence.

If you can point to an argument I've made that isn't soundly defended, let me know.