Tom King's Batman or Scott Snyder's Batman

[Armor of God]

Sheriff is not in question, his Batman is.

Batman is (not always, true) his biggest miss so far and I don`t believe it`s a coincidence that it`s the only work of his that belongs in a major franchise until now.

Agreed, King supporters often pull Sheriff and Vision cards in a Batman related discussion. The last few arcs were far cry from fine scotch, more like Gutter Dew LOL. WOJAR, the arcs with Booster, Diana and Ivy were bottom tier rubbish storylines. His only hits in the last year are the annual and the 2 issue Lois & Clark arc.

Still its amusing to see some people say that Snyder writes Batman more human while others insist that King's Batman is more human, really funny imo.

[SiegePerilous02]

Still its amusing to see some people say that Snyder writes Batman more human while others insist that King's Batman is more human, really funny imo.

What about King's Batman isn't human, especially compared to Snyder's?

Snyder's Batman was the center of a Multiverse event, which generally isn't what you expect for the so called grounded, human hero of the JL. Not to mention things like somehow being able to find the anti-Lasso of Truth or whatever that he used on Wonder Woman in Endgame, something which she or the Amazons would be far more likely to know about and find than him.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

What about King's Batman isn't human, especially compared to Snyder's?

Kings Batman can't speak in full sentences as far as I can tell.

I finished Year Zero, I loved the first part with the Red Hood stuff, but the Riddler stuff was a bit too much for me. Riddler was OP, just too many things he could not thought of ahead of time. At least we saw it, whereas like Jokes & Riddles, the characters would have just talked about it.

[SiegePerilous02]

Kings Batman can't speak in full sentences as far as I can tell. .

There is that I guess lol, but dialogue isn't the only way to judge a character's humanity, especially when EVERY writer has their tics when it comes to dialogue that you start to pick up on after a while. And seems to be the go to complaint about this run, so I'm looking for something a little more in depth.

Bruce is taking a shot at happiness with Selina despite how scared the uncertain future makes him, and things like the PTSD and the unhealthy behavior he displayed as a child soon after his parents were murdered are all pretty human. The latter instance upsetting fanboys for some weird reason* doesn't make it not human.

*Batman exhibited some troubling behavior as a child after witnessing his parents gunned down before his eyes? Whelp, shows over folks, Batman's ruined forever I guess.

[JasonTodd428]

Agreed, King supporters often pull Sheriff and Vision cards in a Batman related discussion. The last few arcs were far cry from fine scotch, more like Gutter Dew LOL. WOJAR, the arcs with Booster, Diana and Ivy were bottom tier rubbish storylines. His only hits in the last year are the annual and the 2 issue Lois & Clark arc.

Still its amusing to see some people say that Snyder writes Batman more human while others insist that King's Batman is more human, really funny imo.

The reason that card is pulled so often is that there have been lot of people saying King is just a bad writer or a hack period just because of some flubs in his Batman run and that is really not the case at all.

[Frontier]

I finished Year Zero, I loved the first part with the Red Hood stuff, but the Riddler stuff was a bit too much for me. Riddler was OP, just too many things he could not thought of ahead of time. At least we saw it, whereas like Jokes & Riddles, the characters would have just talked about it.

Y'know, speaking of Riddler, Snyder's Riddler killed but I didn't find it as jarring or excessive as how King handled him.

[gregpersons]

I'm going to bet that anyone who thinks Snyder>King also hated The Last Jedi but praises Solo.

I'd bet that the crossover of those opinions is very high.

[millernumber1]

I'm going to bet that anyone who thinks Snyder>King also hated The Last Jedi but praises Solo.

I'd bet that the crossover of those opinions is very high.

Haven't seen Solo yet (planning to do that tomorrow), but I hate both Last Jedi and Snyder's Batman run (except for JimBats).

[nonsense man]

Snyder writes batman as an epic hero yes he has his flaws but tries to overcome them and in some cases did. King just undermined that and wrote him as mental invalid that needs help because he is incompetent. That is how I read it. Which batman would you prefer from that analysis. Only three issues I did enjoy as well was the annual that I can take as an alternative universe of batman and his dinner date with lois and clark. He writes interactions better than action I guess.

[Armor of God]

What about King's Batman isn't human, especially compared to Snyder's?

Snyder's Batman was the center of a Multiverse event, which generally isn't what you expect for the so called grounded, human hero of the JL. Not to mention things like somehow being able to find the anti-Lasso of Truth or whatever that he used on Wonder Woman in Endgame, something which she or the Amazons would be far more likely to know about and find than him.

You're just looking at feats and even then Snyder's Batman uses tech and plot devices like any other human characters. King's Batman has even more absurd feats but unlike Snyder's Batman who uses plot devices or Morrison's Batman who stays 10 steps ahead King's Batman just does things because "he's Batman". Headbutt Bane "I'm Batman", fix his own back "its Batman" and it goes on. He just has Batman fight guys like Bane and Grundy h2h and win, his Batman can stomp Deathstroke and Deadshot simultaneously, dont even get me started on the incidents with Superman and Booster & Skeets or the 10000 years he spent with Wonder Woman fighting demons.

But speaking beyond feats King's Batman speaks like a retard, Snyder's is at worst simply juvenile. Snyder also gave Batman some type of support system which make stories more human. People may not like his lack of use of the Bat family but Julie, Alfred, Gordon and Lucius were heavily involved in addition to Snyder's own pets. With King Batman's interactions have been virtually exclusive to Catwoman and Gotham Girl earlier on.

In the end I will say that I was expressing my amusement over how fans of both writers resort to the "human card". If folks want a grounded Batman then they look at Bronze Age and the 80's.

[SiegePerilous02]

You're just looking at feats and even then Snyder's Batman uses tech and plot devices like any other human characters. King's Batman has even more absurd feats but unlike Snyder's Batman who uses plot devices or Morrison's Batman who stays 10 steps ahead King's Batman just does things because "he's Batman". Headbutt Bane "I'm Batman", fix his own back "its Batman" and it goes on. He just has Batman fight guys like Bane and Grundy h2h and win, his Batman can stomp Deathstroke and Deadshot simultaneously, dont even get me started on the incidents with Superman and Booster & Skeets or the 10000 years he spent with Wonder Woman fighting demons.

- Batman defeating Bane hand to hand isn't outside the realm of possibility, and he wasn't exactly in great shape at the end of the fight either.
- He used Grundy's own momentum to toss him into the ground, he didn't just materialize and punch him
- He needed the JL to come in and bail his ass out of the fight with Gotham. They failed, but he didn't succeed where they lost either. He would have been dead if Gotham Girl didn't show up.
- If defeating Deathstroke and Deadshot were so effortless, why did it take him five days to do it? There's also the fact that all the "I'm Batman" moments in the world didn't prevent the Riddler outmaneuvering him and killing Kite-Man's son.
- What "incident" with Superman? The whistle? That was taking out Ivy-possessing-Superman, not Superman who knew how to control his super hearing. Bruce even points out himself that Clark wouldn't have been able to be defeated so easily. And then one hit from Superman at the end of the issue lands him in the hospital.
- Batman is incapable of fighting demons now? Also, the magical nature of the realm kept him alive for all those years, not anything he himself was doing to make him inhuman.

Snyder also gave Batman some type of support system which make stories more human. People may not like his lack of use of the Bat family but Julie, Alfred, Gordon and Lucius were heavily involved in addition to Snyder's own pets. With King Batman's interactions have been virtually exclusive to Catwoman and Gotham Girl earlier on.

And also Alfred, (god help us) Duke, and Gordon on a regular basis, the Robins all popped up for guest appearances, and he and Selina went on a double date with Clark and Lois. Seems like roughly the same amount of people.

In the end I will say that I was expressing my amusement over how fans of both writers resort to the "human card". If folks want a grounded Batman then they look at Bronze Age and the 80's.

Well yeah, Batman definitely isn't grounded. Superman is far less grounded and is frequently the more human character lately. But still, saying King's Batman is less human than Snyder's, or not (relatively) human at all, is odd.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Onto the 3rd trade paperback of King's run. Enjoyed vol 1 and 2 was just okay. Vol 3 was when Snyder started going down imo.

Also King's dialogue for Batman... Is rather bad though.

[millernumber1]

I like the poetic effect of the dialogue. It isn't remotely realistic, but it has a certain effect I appreciate.

[Armor of God]

- Batman defeating Bane hand to hand isn't outside the realm of possibility, and he wasn't exactly in great shape at the end of the fight either.
- He used Grundy's own momentum to toss him into the ground, he didn't just materialize and punch him
- He needed the JL to come in and bail his ass out of the fight with Gotham. They failed, but he didn't succeed where they lost either. He would have been dead if Gotham Girl didn't show up.
- If defeating Deathstroke and Deadshot were so effortless, why did it take him five days to do it? There's also the fact that all the "I'm Batman" moments in the world didn't prevent the Riddler outmaneuvering him and killing Kite-Man's son.
- What "incident" with Superman? The whistle? That was taking out Ivy-possessing-Superman, not Superman who knew how to control his super hearing. Bruce even points out himself that Clark wouldn't have been able to be defeated so easily. And then one hit from Superman at the end of the issue lands him in the hospital.
- Batman is incapable of fighting demons now? Also, the magical nature of the realm kept him alive for all those years, not anything he himself was doing to make him inhuman.



And also Alfred, (god help us) Duke, and Gordon on a regular basis, the Robins all popped up for guest appearances, and he and Selina went on a double date with Clark and Lois. Seems like roughly the same amount of people.



Well yeah, Batman definitely isn't grounded. Superman is far less grounded and is frequently the more human character lately. But still, saying King's Batman is less human than Snyder's, or not (relatively) human at all, is odd.

Had King written a human Batman as claimed Bruce would have died when he allowed Bane the first free hit on his face. It certainly should have broken all his teeth or his jaw altogether. All the other hits should have liquified his body. Batman can beat a venom less Bane h2h and that too with difficulty. The fight was BS.

He lifted Grundy with one hand and slammed him in to the ground and no this is also BS. By this logic Batman can beat Darkseid.
He managed to hurt the Gotham guy while the other JL members couldn't and lasted longer to boot.
A whistle cannot down Superman no matter who mind controls him. The implications behind this feat are preposterous to even comprehend. What's the point of having contigency plans for an evil/mind controlled Superman? Just whistle him to death.
Those same demons Diana was fighting. Point is why was Batman even neccessary?
It took him five days because he was rescuing civilians. Deathstroke and Deadshot are two of the most toughest matchups for Batman in direct encounters. Yet King's version just stomped both outright.

Alfred, Gordon and Duke absolutely do not appear on a regular basis AT ALL. They were present in the first arc but after Catwoman's introduction they have gradually vanished altogether. In the last year Duke has appeared twice the latter just a single page, Gordon and Alfred about 6 issues maybe and in most of them they're just wallpaper. We're talking about 23 issues and an annual.

[millernumber1]

I'm going to bet that anyone who thinks Snyder>King also hated The Last Jedi but praises Solo.

I'd bet that the crossover of those opinions is very high.

Okay, I saw Solo. I:

1) Hate Snyder's run on Batman (excluding Black Mirror, Court of Owls, and Superheavy, but definitely including All Star Batman)

2) Enjoy (but don't love) King's run on Batman (favorite of the past ten years is definitely Tynion, Eternal through Tec)

3) Hate Last Jedi

4) Think Solo is mediocre.

I don't know what your correlation is supposed to mean?