Can a King like Black Panther, Namor and Black Bolt befriend Superheroes...

[neohuey89]

wait what was Coates retcon?

T'Challa still spied on the Avengers, but it was a long the lines of "Truthfully I did it because I really wanted to be a hero"

[dreyga2000]

wait what was Coates retcon?

That joining the Avengers to spy them was a lie T'Challa told himself. Deep down he joined them to be hero and help protect them world

[XPac]

The reason people were bothered by it was because it was a blatant rip off of Tchalla spying on the Avengers, and people didn't see it as believable that she could actually shit the team down, infact, when it came to her "shutting them Down" she got the jump nand WWe chaired Carol and punched BM, but was quickly subdued
Ndonirs was more so unbelievable then OOC. Plus the whole #0 issue that led to that revaluation was cheesy as hell

In what was was MAC quickly subdued? The fight ended when Thanos escaped, but prior to that the last thing we saw was her chucking Adam into Carol. At worst we can call it a draw, but literally no one laid a finger on Mac the entire fight. She evaded and countered everything that was thrown at her up to the fight ending.

But yes, MAC certainly was not the first character to decide to join a team to spy on them. And that's my point. It's something that heroes sometimes do. T'Challa felt it was necessary to do to the Avengers, and MAC felt it was necessary to do it to the Ultimates. In some instances trust is something that needs to be earned.

[XPac]

wait what was Coates retcon?

It wasn't much. He basically wanted to join the Avengers because the scientist in him wanted to see the world beyond the golden city.

Black Panther (2016-) 006-019.jpg

Black Panther (2016-) 006-020.jpg

[Ezyo1000]

In what was was MAC quickly subdued? The fight ended when Thanos escaped, but prior to that the last thing we saw was her chucking Adam into Carol. At worst we can call it a draw, but literally no one laid a finger on Mac the entire fight. She evaded and countered everything that was thrown at her up to the fight ending.

But yes, MAC certainly was not the first character to decide to join a team to spy on them. And that's my point. It's something that heroes sometimes do. T'Challa felt it was necessary to do to the Avengers, and MAC felt it was necessary to do it to the Ultimates. In some instances trust is something that needs to be earned.

read it again, the last scene shown before Thanos breaks out is BM has her arms locked. She basically got the jump on them and was subdued.

I never said heroes don't spy, you were trying to say people were bugged by Mac joining the Ultimates to spy on them, but the reason was more so because it didn't seem believable that she could actually shut the team down, and she didn't she got the drop then was stopped

[Triniking1234]

Except hos FF debut is where Priest drew the spying on the Avengers from. In his FF debut. He invites them to Wakanda and then when they get there he tells them he is going on a hunt, then systematically takes out each FF member. Afterwards he tells them he was testing himself to see if he is ready to take down Klaw.. it's not OOC that is how Stan Lee introduced him. Priest simply built on that. Coates change is OOC because T'Challa is not. Scientist at heart. He is a warrior and a king at heart

Black Panther's FF debut was part of the trend of the Lee and Kirby run where they always fight new super-powered characters they encounter. I wouldn't consider Coates' retcon OOC since T'Challa's initial Avengers run was mostly under Roy Thomas where he's portrayed friendlier compared to Lee + Kirby's version (which only consists of his initial appearance, the fight with Klaw, FF Annual 5 and the team-up with Cap) and it's based on that era of the character.

The reason people were bothered by it was because it was a blatant rip off of Tchalla spying on the Avengers, and people didn't see it as believable that she could actually shit the team down, infact, when it came to her "shutting them Down" she got the jump nand WWe chaired Carol and punched BM, but was quickly subdued
Ndonirs was more so unbelievable then OOC. Plus the whole #0 issue that led to that revaluation was cheesy as hell

Umm... no. America Chavez joining the Ultimates to keep them in check was similar to her Young Avengers appearance where she joined to keep an eye on Wiccan and Loki so it was, in fact, believable.

[XPac]

read it again, the last scene shown before Thanos breaks out is BM has her arms locked. She basically got the jump on them and was subdued.

I never said heroes don't spy, you were trying to say people were bugged by Mac joining the Ultimates to spy on them, but the reason was more so because it didn't seem believable that she could actually shut the team down, and she didn't she got the drop then was stopped

She was still free when they stopped fighting, so the outcome of the battle is unclear. We'll never know whether or not she could have succeeded in beating them all or not (apart from Ewing flat out stating that she could), because the fight is never finished.

Ultimates (2015-) 010-018.jpg

I'll say this though.... I do agree on paper that she isn't more powerful than all of them by herself. But if she's ready for them and they aren't, then I don't say she it's not possible. Would have been interesting to see how that fight would have concluded but alas Thanos interrupted.

And in your earlier post you flat out said people were botherer by her spying because it's a blatent rip off of T'Challa

The reason people were bothered by it was because it was a blatant rip off of Tchalla spying on the Avengers, and people didn't see it as believable that she could actually shit the team down, infact, when it came to her "shutting them Down" she got the jump nand WWe chaired Carol and punched BM, but was quickly subdued
Ndonirs was more so unbelievable then OOC. Plus the whole #0 issue that led to that revaluation was cheesy as hell

I'm just arguing that while YES it's something T'Challa has done as well, in the grand scheme of things it's something that certain heroes feel needs to be done. A good idea is a good idea, even if something else may have done it first.

[XPac]

Black Panther's FF debut was part of the trend of the Lee and Kirby run where they always fight new super-powered characters they encounter. I wouldn't consider Coates' retcon OOC since T'Challa's initial Avengers run was mostly under Roy Thomas where he's portrayed friendlier compared to Lee + Kirby's version (which only consists of his initial appearance, the fight with Klaw, FF Annual 5 and the team-up with Cap) and it's based on that era of the character.



Umm... no. America Chavez joining the Ultimates to keep them in check was similar to her Young Avengers appearance where she joined to keep an eye on Wiccan and Loki so it was, in fact, believable.

As far as friendliness goes, I think pretty much every version of the character was friendlier than Priests (except Geoffs which was a pretty spot on translation of it). It's part of the charm of Priest version I suppose... but beyond that I think in a lot of ways Priests version overall is an outlier. Most version have a much friendlier version of the character.

If you look at the evolution of his relationship with the hero community, overtime he gets warmer to them as he gets to know them better (which makese sense), then he gets colder under Priest.... then he warms up more to them with Hudlin onward. Priest was just sort of doing something a bit different with the character... and it was cool and it worked. But you can argue it didn't quite line up with the overall direction of where the character was going in the grand scheme of things. BUt that can happen when you've got various writers handling the same character over the span of decades.