Packaging, Shipping, Refunds and Replacements - Share your Experiences!

[Danny77]

Hey everyone, i'm looking for a bit of advice on a return request i just received for my copy of Uncanny X-Men Vol.2 I sold on Amazon. Below is the return request.

Return reason: The shipping box or envelope isn’t damaged but the item is damaged
Customer comments: There is damage to the spine of the book and a quarter sized sent in over half the books pages.

The book i sold was brand new and still in the shrink wrap (i wound up with two copies when the variant cover came back in stock out of the blue a few months ago). The book i sold was in perfect condition, no visible flaws from what i could see. I know some people on the board have noticed manufacturing flaws inside their Marvel books, and i guess that may be what this guy is describing. I'm not sure what to do, do i ask if he took it out of the shrink-wrap? If i permit the return, do i have any control over dictating how much of a refund i give? do i just say, if the item is returned in the same condition in which it was sent, they will get a refund for the amount they paid, minus their shipping costs. Do i just state i can't take a return on an item taken out of the shrink-wrap? Any advice would help. Thanks and hope you are all having a great holiday season.

[Bri]

Hey everyone, i'm looking for a bit of advice on a return request i just received for my copy of Uncanny X-Men Vol.2 I sold on Amazon. Below is the return request.

Return reason: The shipping box or envelope isn’t damaged but the item is damaged
Customer comments: There is damage to the spine of the book and a quarter sized sent in over half the books pages.

The book i sold was brand new and still in the shrink wrap (i wound up with two copies when the variant cover came back in stock out of the blue a few months ago). The book i sold was in perfect condition, no visible flaws from what i could see. I know some people on the board have noticed manufacturing flaws inside their Marvel books, and i guess that may be what this guy is describing. I'm not sure what to do, do i ask if he took it out of the shrink-wrap? If i permit the return, do i have any control over dictating how much of a refund i give? do i just say, if the item is returned in the same condition in which it was sent, they will get a refund for the amount they paid, minus their shipping costs. Do i just state i can't take a return on an item taken out of the shrink-wrap? Any advice would help. Thanks and hope you are all having a great holiday season.

I had a similar problem with a DEADPOOL MINI-BUS I sold on EBAY. The book was sold as new/sealed NM. The customer received the book, removed the shrink wrap and noticed damaged interior pages. He asked for a refund which I disputed. Ebay ruled in my favor agreeing that I could in no way know of damage to the interior of a factory sealed book. Ebay also stated that by removing the factory seal the book was altered from its original state and I could refuse the refund on those grounds. If your buyer had to remove the shrink wrap to notice the damage you should not be held responsible. This is one of the major problems with selling new/sealed books.

[kodave]

Hey everyone, i'm looking for a bit of advice on a return request i just received for my copy of Uncanny X-Men Vol.2 I sold on Amazon. Below is the return request.

Return reason: The shipping box or envelope isn’t damaged but the item is damaged
Customer comments: There is damage to the spine of the book and a quarter sized sent in over half the books pages.

The book i sold was brand new and still in the shrink wrap (i wound up with two copies when the variant cover came back in stock out of the blue a few months ago). The book i sold was in perfect condition, no visible flaws from what i could see. I know some people on the board have noticed manufacturing flaws inside their Marvel books, and i guess that may be what this guy is describing. I'm not sure what to do, do i ask if he took it out of the shrink-wrap? If i permit the return, do i have any control over dictating how much of a refund i give? do i just say, if the item is returned in the same condition in which it was sent, they will get a refund for the amount they paid, minus their shipping costs. Do i just state i can't take a return on an item taken out of the shrink-wrap? Any advice would help. Thanks and hope you are all having a great holiday season.

I'm honestly surprised at the outcome of Bri's eBay experience.

Generally speaking, Amazon is more buyer friendly than eBay even is. If you get lucky, Amazon might eat the costs so you keep the money and they can keep the book and get a refund. Chances are you're going to have to accept a return on the item, and if you don't, they're just going to take the money from you anyway and refund the customer, and then you won't even have your book back.

This is the peril of selling on Amazon Marketplace. Everything is returnable and you're going to take a loss one way or another if it's not in the described condition. You're in a crappy spot because through no fault of your own (I assume you bomb proofed the package so there's no way the book could have slammed around internally during shipment?), the book was internally damaged/defective. In a normal business commerce stream, you might be able to then return that to the distributor and get a refund/replacement. But you're just a regular person who re-sold an extra book. You don't have that option. And Amazon doesn't care. Amazon and eBay don't want regular people selling on their website. They want people who run dedicated businesses.

Or you might be getting scammed, but that's almost impossible to prove with the way Amazon is set up. But scammers are part of the cost of doing business online, just like shoplifters are part of the cost of owning a physical store. You can try to do everything possible to prevent that situation from occurring, but you're likely still going to be putting a loss in your ledger at some point.

You might see if the buyer would accept some kind of partial discount instead of a return. If they don't want that, I would advise you to authorize the return, eat the loss on the shipping, and then when you get the book back, try to resell it as Used in whatever condition the book matches up to now. That might mean "Very Good" or even "Good" by Amazon's item condition standards. So you're going to take a hit on the re-sell value too. If I had to bet money and you try to tell the buyer "no returns if it's been opened" then they're just going to open an A to Z Claim on you that you might very well lose if Amazon doesn't take sympathy on the manufacturing defect aspect of your situation.

[Rich]

To be honest (assuming the buyer isn't a scammer) this sort of thing is on the seller. If I bought something that was advertised as being brand new and it arrived damaged I would expect at least a partial refund as I would not have received what I had paid for. It is down to the seller to take the issue up with the delivery company used or the place they purchased the item. I am a seller myself and have had to eat costs from time to time, **** happens.

Better to sell the book as used but say it's sealed.

[Bri]

To be honest (assuming the buyer isn't a scammer) this sort of thing is on the seller. If I bought something that was advertised as being brand new and it arrived damaged I would expect at least a partial refund as I would not have received what I had paid for. It is down to the seller to take the issue up with the delivery company used or the place they purchased the item. I am a seller myself and have had to eat costs from time to time, **** happens.

Better to sell the book as used but say it's sealed.

It is only on the seller if the seller damaged the item. A seller can not be held responsible for manufacturing defects that can not be seen unless the shrink wrap is removed. When you sell a new/sealed book you are promising a book as manufactured. As long as that is what you deliver you have fulfilled your obligation.
On a slightly different note I just received a shipment from IST. One of the MARVEL hardcovers was not factory sealed. (BATTLE OF THE ATOM). The book is in otherwise great condition and I would be removing the shrink-wrap anyway, but I did pay for a brand new book which includes factory shrink wrap. I know AMAZON will replace MARVEL/DC hardcovers that are shipped unsealed, I wonder if IST will. I don't even plan on replacing the item I just would like to know if they would. Guess I will ask and see.

[TomSlick]

It is only on the seller if the seller damaged the item. A seller can not be held responsible for manufacturing defects that can not be seen unless the shrink wrap is removed. When you sell a new/sealed book you are promising a book as manufactured. As long as that is what you deliver you have fulfilled your obligation.
On a slightly different note I just received a shipment from IST. One of the MARVEL hardcovers was not factory sealed. (BATTLE OF THE ATOM). The book is in otherwise great condition and I would be removing the shrink-wrap anyway, but I did pay for a brand new book which includes factory shrink wrap. I know AMAZON will replace MARVEL/DC hardcovers that are shipped unsealed, I wonder if IST will. I don't even plan on replacing the item I just would like to know if they would. Guess I will ask and see.

Not all books come factory sealed.
My main concern about your order, however, is that you paid for Battle of the Atom.
Heh.

[Bri]

Not all books come factory sealed.
My main concern about your order, however, is that you paid for Battle of the Atom.
Heh.

I believe X-MEN Battle of the Atom was manufactured factory sealed, but I could be wrong. Anyway the book is in perfect condition, so I don't really care. Never underestimate my taste in comics. FEAR ITSELF is my favorite MARVEL crossover, and I totally dig ALL STAR BATMAN and ROBIN. Many of my friends urge my to seek help.

[TomSlick]

I believe X-MEN Battle of the Atom was manufactured factory sealed, but I could be wrong. Anyway the book is in perfect condition, so I don't really care. Never underestimate my taste in comics. FEAR ITSELF is my favorite MARVEL crossover, and I totally dig ALL STAR BATMAN and ROBIN. Many of my friends urge my to seek help.

I don't know if it was or not. Just saying that not all of them are. I just got one from IST that wasn't. Can't recall the book, though, but it was recent. Yes, your friends are correct. You need help. LOL. That said, All Star Batman isn't that bad once you realize it's Frank Miller having fun and not taking anything serious.

[DrGregatron]

It is only on the seller if the seller damaged the item. A seller can not be held responsible for manufacturing defects that can not be seen unless the shrink wrap is removed. When you sell a new/sealed book you are promising a book as manufactured. As long as that is what you deliver you have fulfilled your obligation.
On a slightly different note I just received a shipment from IST. One of the MARVEL hardcovers was not factory sealed. (BATTLE OF THE ATOM). The book is in otherwise great condition and I would be removing the shrink-wrap anyway, but I did pay for a brand new book which includes factory shrink wrap. I know AMAZON will replace MARVEL/DC hardcovers that are shipped unsealed, I wonder if IST will. I don't even plan on replacing the item I just would like to know if they would. Guess I will ask and see.

I'm going to have to cry bullshit on this idea that the seller is not somehow responsible for the contents of the book. If you bought a sealed book off Amazon and it's pages had some defect you found unacceptable, don't tell me you wouldn't consider sending it back. If you bought a toaster from Target and it wouldn't toast your bread right out of the box, don't tell me you wouldn't take it back for one that works.

I've warned you guys for years about the high rate of manufacture defects with Marvel books. I've estimated it to be as high as one in four of the omnibuses that I've bought. I've also warned of this particular situation when selling on eBay where you sell a sealed book and risk selling a person a defective book. If I spent a lot of money on a sealed book and found a defect, you can bet I'd consider asking for a refund. Target and Amazon don't know which sealed products will be found to be defective, but they consider accepting returns a part of doing business. If you're not willing to accept the costs of selling online, then you'll risk getting bad feedback from your customers and possibly having Amazon/eBay forcing your hand.

[awayne83]

Yeah I've had that happen a couple times over the years. Books were fine as well. I wonder if the packaging doesn't get ripped badly and the just remove it or something to that affect. I had a Y the Last Man HC put in a comic bag and closed while the others were shrink wrapped. And I thought BotA was decent, but i enjoyed bendis' run.. Now black vortex, that was a hot mess.

[Bri]

I'm going to have to cry bullshit on this idea that the seller is not somehow responsible for the contents of the book. If you bought a sealed book off Amazon and it's pages had some defect you found unacceptable, don't tell me you wouldn't consider sending it back. If you bought a toaster from Target and it wouldn't toast your bread right out of the box, don't tell me you wouldn't take it back for one that works.

I've warned you guys for years about the high rate of manufacture defects with Marvel books. I've estimated it to be as high as one in four of the omnibuses that I've bought. I've also warned of this particular situation when selling on eBay where you sell a sealed book and risk selling a person a defective book. If I spent a lot of money on a sealed book and found a defect, you can bet I'd consider asking for a refund. Target and Amazon don't know which sealed products will be found to be defective, but they consider accepting returns a part of doing business. If you're not willing to accept the costs of selling online, then you'll risk getting bad feedback from your customers and possibly having Amazon/eBay forcing your hand.

Here's the problem: Many people will not buy a MARVEL/DC/OTHER hardcover unless it is sealed, and in fact seek out only NEW/SEALED copies. As a seller I factually can not sell a book as NEW/SEALED if I remove the seal. I cannot inspect the book for defects without removing the seal. Also the factory seal is considered a part of the finished new book. Once you remove the seal it is no longer the book I sold you. It would be the same as throwing away the dust jacket and asking for a refund. If you buy a book new and sealed you are buying the book as is, the seller simply can not be held responsible for manufacturing defects it would be literally impossible for them to know about. Actually the only responsible party for manufacturing defects would be the printing company that manufactured the books. You cant even blame the publisher, as they can not be expected to somehow know the exact condition of thousands of copies of books they have no way of seeing into.
If the entire collecting community somehow suddenly agreed that the factory shrink wrap had no value then this problem would not exist. As long as we have collectors who insist on getting factory sealed books then they must be willing to accept the fact that the seller bears no responsibility for what they can not possibly be aware of.

[Rich]

It is only on the seller if the seller damaged the item. A seller can not be held responsible for manufacturing defects that can not be seen unless the shrink wrap is removed. When you sell a new/sealed book you are promising a book as manufactured. As long as that is what you deliver you have fulfilled your obligation.
On a slightly different note I just received a shipment from IST. One of the MARVEL hardcovers was not factory sealed. (BATTLE OF THE ATOM). The book is in otherwise great condition and I would be removing the shrink-wrap anyway, but I did pay for a brand new book which includes factory shrink wrap. I know AMAZON will replace MARVEL/DC hardcovers that are shipped unsealed, I wonder if IST will. I don't even plan on replacing the item I just would like to know if they would. Guess I will ask and see.

Sorry but I completely disagree with this. A previously unseen defect is not the sellers fault but it is their responsibility. As I said the item is being advertised to be in a condition it's not in, the buyer bought it based on the information provided by the seller. In the UK if this happened and the shop/seller refused to resolve the situation the buyers bank or credit card company would take the money back on the buyers behalf.

[DrGregatron]

Sorry but I completely disagree with this. A previously unseen defect is not the sellers fault but it is their responsibility. As I said the item is being advertised to be in a condition it's not in, the buyer bought it based on the information provided by the seller. In the UK if this happened and the shop/seller refused to resolve the situation the buyers bank or credit card company would take the money back on the buyers behalf.

Exactly. You wouldn't know if a toaster in a sealed box is defective until you opened it and plugged it in--but if it didn't work, Target isn't going to tell you that you can't return it because it's not in its original "sealed box". Neither are they going to argue that there was no way they could have known any one particular toaster was defective--they simply accept that there will be a certain number of defective items that they'll have to accept returns on. Accepting defective returns is what a seller does. And if you're selling Marvel hardcovers you should know that the defect rate is rather high due to the printers Marvel pays to print their books.

[Bri]

You are not buying a "New sealed toaster". You are buying a toaster. The packaging holds no value. When collectors seek out "New/Sealed" hardcovers they want exactly that. If I advertise and sell a book as new and sealed and send you a non-sealed book did you get the item you paid for? The fact is that new sealed books command a higher price among collectors. The moment you remove the seal it is no longer the item I sold you. Am I expected to take a return for a book a did not sell you? I realize this might sound petty, but many collectors do not consider a book to be new if the seal is removed. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
If I were to sell you a hardcover that was not advertised as NEW/SEALED I would certainly take responsibility for any damage, as I could easily inspect the book and be aware of it.
In any case any future listings will contain the following: "Factory sealed hardcover. Seller is not responsible for any manufacturers defects not visible do to factory seal."

[kodave]

It is only on the seller if the seller damaged the item. A seller can not be held responsible for manufacturing defects that can not be seen unless the shrink wrap is removed. When you sell a new/sealed book you are promising a book as manufactured. As long as that is what you deliver you have fulfilled your obligation.

You may think that, and for some reason you that was your experience that one time on eBay, but generally speaking that's NOT true. Sellers are almost always responsible for defects of products caused by the manufacturer when it comes to places like Amazon and eBay. If someone takes the plastic off the book and the pages are all blank, or if someone opens their new dust buster vacuum and the motor doesn't work, or they buy a brand new iPad and the battery is DOA - that buyer isn't stuck, and Amazon and eBay almost never make the buyer take it up with the manufacturer even if there is a warranty. It always comes back to the seller to make right, and the seller is the one who has to deal with whoever is up the product chain from them, whether that's the distributor or the manufacturer or potentially NO ONE because they sat on a sealed book for 5 years so now they have to eat the loss.

Here's the problem: Many people will not buy a MARVEL/DC/OTHER hardcover unless it is sealed, and in fact seek out only NEW/SEALED copies. As a seller I factually can not sell a book as NEW/SEALED if I remove the seal. I cannot inspect the book for defects without removing the seal. Also the factory seal is considered a part of the finished new book. Once you remove the seal it is no longer the book I sold you. It would be the same as throwing away the dust jacket and asking for a refund. If you buy a book new and sealed you are buying the book as is, the seller simply can not be held responsible for manufacturing defects it would be literally impossible for them to know about. Actually the only responsible party for manufacturing defects would be the printing company that manufactured the books. You cant even blame the publisher, as they can not be expected to somehow know the exact condition of thousands of copies of books they have no way of seeing into.
If the entire collecting community somehow suddenly agreed that the factory shrink wrap had no value then this problem would not exist. As long as we have collectors who insist on getting factory sealed books then they must be willing to accept the fact that the seller bears no responsibility for what they can not possibly be aware of.

You're still wrong. You basically got lucky that one time. Selling something new/sealed - whether it's a book or a toaster - isn't an "AS IS" sale. The seller is assuming the risk that whatever is underneath the packaging is in the new condition it is supposed to be in from the manufacturer. So whenever someone is re-selling something sealed, that's the risk they are assuming. It's not the buyer's risk to assume with the policies that Amazon and eBay have in place.

You are not buying a "New sealed toaster". You are buying a toaster. The packaging holds no value. When collectors seek out "New/Sealed" hardcovers they want exactly that. If I advertise and sell a book as new and sealed and send you a non-sealed book did you get the item you paid for? The fact is that new sealed books command a higher price among collectors. The moment you remove the seal it is no longer the item I sold you. Am I expected to take a return for a book a did not sell you? I realize this might sound petty, but many collectors do not consider a book to be new if the seal is removed. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
If I were to sell you a hardcover that was not advertised as NEW/SEALED I would certainly take responsibility for any damage, as I could easily inspect the book and be aware of it.
In any case any future listings will contain the following: "Factory sealed hardcover. Seller is not responsible for any manufacturers defects not visible do to factory seal."

Buyers absolutely get to have their cake and eat it too. Welcome to selling on the internet, especially through Amazon/eBay. As a seller, you are guaranteeing the conditions/contents are absolutely as they should be WITHOUT inspecting it, regardless of if it is even possible for you to inspect it. That is the nature of selling a sealed product like that. You seem to have a fundamental disagreement with this concept because you find it unfair to you. But it's only "unfair" to you because you are outside the regular commerce flow as a secondary seller/reseller. But that's the way this world works when Amazon/eBay/PayPal/Credit Card companies set the rules to be pro-customer. You got lucky once. Have your eBay claim dispute again and I would wager it would come out the other way.

Again, the way the seller comes out of these situations okay is if eBay or Amazon takes pitty upon them and agrees they were not at fault, but the buyer shouldn't bear the burden of the defective item, so they as a giant corporation will absorb the loss to keep both the buyer and the seller whole and happy. But gambling on that outcome is a risk, which is why most sellers will suck it up and go through with the return/refund, or they'll lose when they take a hard stance against eBay/Amazon and the buyer.

And good luck with your little disclaimer. You can say whatever the hell you want in an eBay listing. It doesn't mean anyone has to abide by it. You can say "BUYER MUST PAY THE SECOND THE AUCTION ENDS" but the buyer doesn't have to. The buyer can take as long as eBay gives them to pay before the seller can file the unpaid item claim. You can say "NO BIDDERS WITH LESS THAN 5 FEEDBACK" but that also doesn't matter. If the account is eligible to place a bid, they can place that bid with their 0 feedback and you have to honor the auction if they win. You can say "BUYER MUST DO 10 HANDSTANDS BEFORE I WILL SHIP THE ITEM" and you'll instead be committed to the local asylum. The only thing buyers and sellers have to abide by are the polices set in place by eBay (or Amazon). When your defense to a future claim is "MY DISCLAIMER SAID I'M NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MANUFACTURER DEFECTS" the employee on the other end is going to probably sigh in annoyance as they award the money from your PayPal account back into the buyer's account, because those words hold no weight when it comes to an official dispute. All you can hope is that buyers are mislead by your words and anyone who would want to do a return due to manufacturer defect decides not to purchase from you in the first place.