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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    All I'm saying is, as far back as the '80s, if you asked someone to name a billionaire businessman, most people would have named Donald Trump first. Is it anecdotal? It's as much as saying Michael Jackson was a huge celebrity during that same era, which is equally true. It sure seemed like The Donald's name was all over the place, again, before the TV show. But maybe I'm wrong and he's just like Honey Boo Boo.

    BTW, I can't stand reality programming.
    That name recognition didn't necessarily connote any authority, though, on business or much less on politics. His company's bankruptcies in the nineties were a stain on his reputation, which the Apprentice bolstered by repositioning him as the supposedly brilliant businessman, a role he was essentially relegated to playing on television since he certainly no longer held that image in the eyes of anyone old enough or just well-informed on his history. Along with this renewed spotlight and repainted facade of business acumen came twitter, giving him the audience and enough of a manufactured guise of intelligence to begin commenting on politics. Basically, the public (outside Howard Stern) stopped caring about him long enough in the nineties to forget what a clown he was and fall for the manufactured image on their television in 2004. Without that dumb reality show there is no conceivable trajectory for him from his d-list, little rascals celebrity status in the 90's to the presidency.

  2. #77
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keeen View Post
    That name recognition didn't necessarily connote any authority, though, on business or much less on politics. His company's bankruptcies in the nineties were a stain on his reputation, which the Apprentice bolstered by repositioning him as the supposedly brilliant businessman, a role he was essentially relegated to playing on television since he certainly no longer held that image in the eyes of anyone old enough or just well-informed on his history. Along with this renewed spotlight and repainted facade of business acumen came twitter, giving him the audience and enough of a manufactured guise of intelligence to begin commenting on politics. Basically, the public (outside Howard Stern) stopped caring about him long enough in the nineties to forget what a clown he was and fall for the manufactured image on their television in 2004. Without that dumb reality show there is no conceivable trajectory for him from his d-list, little rascals celebrity status in the 90's to the presidency.
    Thi is true. Even a couple of the former producers of the Apprentice admit that they shored up his reputation on the show by making it appear he was competent. They have some on set/behind the scenes stuff on him but the NDA they signed with the Executive Producer Marc Burnet and Trump (who also was an Exec. producer) prevents them from revealing too much.

  3. #78
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    Over-eating is a vice like any other. If Jurgens was complaining about someones sidestream smoke while waiting for a lyft or a drunk stumbling around making him uncomfortable, those people would get no sympathy here, I take it. But he complains about someones weight personally inconveniencing him during a flight and he's seen as abhorrent? Yes, it is a choice, you can choose to gorge on enough food to feed a small, 3rd world village, or you can choose to eat sensible portions. You can choose to eat healthy food and exercise if you have a medical condition that necessitates that. People who are overweight can lose or gain that weight purposefully, so where exactly does that remove their choice?

  4. #79
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Mind you, the airlines are largely to blame for creating this kind of problem by ensuring everyone is as uncomfortable and miserable as possible on the flights.
    They don't ensure that. They offer more expensive seats but most people (me included) choose the cheaper more cramped seats.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    They don't ensure that. They offer more expensive seats but most people (me included) choose the cheaper more cramped seats.
    I don't have that choice. My choice is those seats or don't fly. I cant afford business or first class.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raefe Mahadeo View Post
    Over-eating is a vice like any other. If Jurgens was complaining about someones sidestream smoke while waiting for a lyft or a drunk stumbling around making him uncomfortable, those people would get no sympathy here, I take it. But he complains about someones weight personally inconveniencing him during a flight and he's seen as abhorrent? Yes, it is a choice, you can choose to gorge on enough food to feed a small, 3rd world village, or you can choose to eat sensible portions. You can choose to eat healthy food and exercise if you have a medical condition that necessitates that. People who are overweight can lose or gain that weight purposefully, so where exactly does that remove their choice?
    They're not all that comparable in truth at least not in a situation as such, though I get why someone might think so.

    If someone's smoking they're choosing then and there to do it. Similarly while folks who are drunk can get around they don't usually travel all that much on foot so they're also largely choosing where to be drinking/drunk.

    Someone who's overweight well they might choose to be overweight if you really want to see it that way (I don't largely) but in the end it's not like they're going to stare at themselves and SUDDENLY lose weight in a given situation. They don't choose to be fat at times that inconvenience themselves like the others.

    I mean I'm someone who's relatively average but considered overweight. I'm in the 190 lb range so while it's annoying to me clothing wise it's not generally going to be an issue for anyone else but even for me situations can be annoying or bothersome at my size on places like planes and trains. But losing weight? Hilariously hard even for someone like me. I'm even quite active going to the gym several times a week (usually between 3-5). That extra activity though which is something I've done for the last 2-3 years though? Nothing to actually alter my weight even when I similarly cut down on junk foods, sodas etc... I still see it as a positive in that I haven't GAINED weight but it's a sign of how it can work.

    Even if I sat down and worked out all day (and I don't have that luxury, time being one of the most expensive commodities in the fight to lose weight) I doubt I'd lose weight quickly. So while TV shows love to make it seem easy to do real life shows us and the ongoing obesity epidemic that it's nowhere near as easy to lose weight as one thinks.

  7. #82
    Mighty Member Kai "the spy"'s Avatar
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    Okay, I'm gonna ask the obvious question nobody seems to have asked on these six thread pages: How did Kevin Smith react when he heard about this?
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai "the spy" View Post
    Okay, I'm gonna ask the obvious question nobody seems to have asked on these six thread pages: How did Kevin Smith react when he heard about this?
    Don't think he's worried about that. He's on a post-heart attack diet and has just lost 20 lbs according to his Twitter. His doctor told him to lose 50lbs.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyroTwilight View Post
    They're not all that comparable in truth at least not in a situation as such, though I get why someone might think so.

    If someone's smoking they're choosing then and there to do it. Similarly while folks who are drunk can get around they don't usually travel all that much on foot so they're also largely choosing where to be drinking/drunk.

    Someone who's overweight well they might choose to be overweight if you really want to see it that way (I don't largely) but in the end it's not like they're going to stare at themselves and SUDDENLY lose weight in a given situation. They don't choose to be fat at times that inconvenience themselves like the others.

    I mean I'm someone who's relatively average but considered overweight. I'm in the 190 lb range so while it's annoying to me clothing wise it's not generally going to be an issue for anyone else but even for me situations can be annoying or bothersome at my size on places like planes and trains. But losing weight? Hilariously hard even for someone like me. I'm even quite active going to the gym several times a week (usually between 3-5). That extra activity though which is something I've done for the last 2-3 years though? Nothing to actually alter my weight even when I similarly cut down on junk foods, sodas etc... I still see it as a positive in that I haven't GAINED weight but it's a sign of how it can work.

    Even if I sat down and worked out all day (and I don't have that luxury, time being one of the most expensive commodities in the fight to lose weight) I doubt I'd lose weight quickly. So while TV shows love to make it seem easy to do real life shows us and the ongoing obesity epidemic that it's nowhere near as easy to lose weight as one thinks.
    The situation Jurgens described isn't personally inconveniencing someone with their weight? Sounds inconvenient to me. HIV is an epidemic. Gorging yourself to the point of being morbidly obese isn't something someone is helpless to change. Its a choice. I won't define obesity as an epidemic people are helpless to prevent or change, because it's not. Which makes it a willful epidemic people aren't being encouraged enough to circumvent. Not one they are helpless victims against like an incurable illness. That losing weight takes extra effort (unlike quitting nicotine, a substance described as more addictive than heroine) to regain a healthy size after damaging your body regularly doesn't diminish it's a choice. Moreover, its self harm. Something apologia is not engaged with for other manners of self harm like cutting or general substance abuse. Those people are judged, because society rightly sees that behaviour is harmful and shouldn't be encouraged. Society recognizes cutting into your own flesh as a detriment, but adding to it to the point of heartfailure, that's where it's not right to judge?
    Last edited by Conch22; 03-26-2018 at 09:06 AM.

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    This was not a nice thing for Jurgens to post.

    I am sure the "fat person" did not want to be stuffed into their seat or extending over it into another patron's space.

    I don't think it is fair to expect the larger traveler to have to pay for 1st class or to buy 2 seats. It is not like seats cost $50.

    As an average-sized person, I have flown when this has happened to me. So I do understand the issue.

    My question is: in 2018, where is everyone's understanding and compassion for others?

    Instead of posting this comment, what about Jurgens writing the airlines and government complaining what they do to all passengers?

    Make a positive change that way instead of a negative comment this way.

    In the words of Stan Lee, "'Nuff Said!"

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raefe Mahadeo View Post
    The situation Jurgens described isn't personally inconveniencing someone with their weight? Sounds inconvenient to me.
    And yet every human is different shapes and sizes. Can someone who's fat change themselves in an instant to avoid their and others inconvenient situation? Nope. Someone who's smoking, drinking etc... can.

    HIV is an epidemic. Gorging yourself to the point of being morbidly obese isn't something someone is helpless to change. Its a choice. I won't define obesity as an epidemic people are helpless to prevent or change, because it's not. Which makes it a willful epidemic people aren't being encouraged enough to circumvent. Not one they are helpless victims against like an incurable illness. That losing weight takes extra effort (unlike quitting nicotine, a substance described as more addictive than heroine) to regain a healthy size after damaging your body regularly doesn't diminish it's a choice.
    Honestly I think while plenty are gorging themselves most who put on weight even to the levels we often think of as obesity really...aren't. Losing weight is also hilarious set up in a way that it's darn near impossible for someone to do. Time to plan or make meals, time to exercise, the amount of money to spend on all these weight loss activities etc... So unless you're already someone with a ton of free time or well off financially it's not happening quickly if at all.

    Moreover, its self harm. Something apologia is not engaged with for other manners of self harm like cutting or general substance abuse. Those people are judged, because society rightly sees that behaviour is harmful and shouldn't be encouraged. Society recognizes cutting into your own flesh as a detriment, but adding to it to the point of heartfailure, that's where it's not right to judge?
    Probably because like many things what makes it self harm and how? What would be the point that makes it so? Some folks are just plain predisposed to heart failure the extra weight not helping but barely playing a role. After all even skinny folks get it. I mean there's folks out there who will smoke every day of their life that they can and not develop cancer.


    Which isn't to say at the end of the day that folks shouldn't be TRYING be get healthier, I know I do my best. It's just very easy to look at someone overweight who might be so for any number of reasons and just act like they're lazy and not trying. I mean unless you're working with them or otherwise privy to their life history you just can't know or guess that and yeah because unlike something like "cutting" what works for someone size wise is different for everyone. I mean people (really just my family) act like I'm a 600 lb person when I'm 190 ish and haven't ever had any real struggle doing my work or any other work.

    Not to mention as inconvenient situations go change it a bit around have a big muscly guy wedged next to him and no one would bat an eye even though as far as his convenience goes it's probably the same. And that's happened to me in the past. Big weightlifting looking guy. Big broad legs etc...

  12. #87
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Don't think he's worried about that. He's on a post-heart attack diet and has just lost 20 lbs according to his Twitter. His doctor told him to lose 50lbs.
    So being overweight is a choice as Kevin Smith is now choosing to not be overweight.

  13. #88
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    a) You can be mindful of your physical size when around others of standard weight relative to their size. To not crowd or bump into them. Just like someone smoking can be mindful of others in their general direction and not blow smoke on them. Or someone wanting to drink can not drive afterwards and make arrangements to get home instead of making a public spectacle. b) This is a massive exaggeration, that eating fruits and veggies, keeping track of your calorie intake and something like jogging a couple times a week is a rich persons game and not something the lower and middle class can do. Fruits and vegetables are generally reasonably priced, parks to jog in do not have an admission cost, almost every product has a list of calories, along with sugars, fructose, glucose. Familiarizing yourself with problem items takes an afternoon, less time than some spend on social media a day. c)Obesity is harmful to your health, ask a doctor. Ask Bendis' why he had to lose weight (health reasons). Look at an instance like Michael Clarke Duncan, where he'd actively been decreasing his weight for health reasons and the lingering effects of him being overweight proved fatal still. d) There is

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    So being overweight is a choice as Kevin Smith is now choosing to not be overweight.
    Well. It's a choice that as someone rich can actually more easily make. So yeah, it's a choice in that regard. He's a millionaire. Not as big as others but he has the resources to stop and get healthy way more easily than others do.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    So being overweight is a choice as Kevin Smith is now choosing to not be overweight.
    I guess if he wants to have another heart attack he can choose not to follow his doctor's orders. He had a massive heart attack, called the widow maker back in February. He's lucky to be alive. He had 100% blockage of the left anterior descending artery, which is usually fatal.

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