So this is how it ended? Wow.
So this is how it ended? Wow.
Yes, lets talk about Jane.
Reflecting on her time as THOR it seems to me shes been written more as a paragon while others have been relegated to flawed heroes. Thor himself especially.
The recent reveal he cheated on he is a prime example.It seems to serve no purpose except to make him look less heroic next to a virtuous Jane. Aaron seems determined to show her as a better Thor than Thor, even having Old King Thor declare as much. Thor will only get back his hammer because its most worthy recipient is gone.
In effect Aaron, by design or not, has made him the consolation Thunder God.
Last edited by brettc1; 03-26-2018 at 11:14 AM.
If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not
“The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor
This idea that Aaron is seeking to pull down Odinson seems somewhat perverse and completely contradictory to the actual story to me. The context of Thor mentioning his ‘dalliances’ is during a conversation in which both parties are failing to communicate. Jane as much as Odinson. Jane remains uninterested in his talk of dalliances, it wasn’t what she was talking about. Nobody accused him of doing anything wrong, nobody said he had affairs or even that he had sex. A dalliance is a soft word. It describes meaningless flirtation, the word is often a couched term for casual sex, but couched terms are not direct. A dalliance is the kind of thing that happens at parties. A brief liaison without lasting consequence. The term is often used by people of a higher class referring to brief affairs with people that would never be considered marriageable. Jane ignores the whole thing because she wasn’t talking about that, but she equally fails to make clear to Odinson what she is referring to.
Also, bear in mind Jane and Thor’s actual consumation only occurs formally in Aaron’s story. Until Aaron clearly shows them having slept together any dalliances would be meaningless anyway. It is not as if canon previously had them going to bed with each other. All it ever showed was a chaste relationship with lots of wistful thought bubbles. The presumed timeframe of this consumation, given that it happened in Asgard, also suggests that there was no actual time for Thor to have been unfaithful because within a short time Jane would be dispatched back to earth and written out of the story. So any guilt Odinson feels is entirely based on his own feelings for Jane prior to this, and prior to them really being a couple.
The whole thing is as inconsequential as the word dalliance. Nothing to get upset about.
I think he has deliberately degraded thor, in such actions as saying he cheated on her if only by implication, because all definition aside that's clearly what he meant to suggest, why else would thor think there was some retribution or revenge in her not telling him
Sure it doesn't say it outright, but it's clear what the intention was let's not kid ourselves here
To what degree these daliences took place isn't that important, it's put there to show thor was in some way less than virtuous, a deliberate act to lessen his chair only in his own eyes, I guess that reinforces why the whisper worked when we all know thors a great hero
However I don't think it was maliciously done
I do think it was an extension of his degradation of the gods in general
but I do think he did it on purpose
As for ja only more recently showing them physically intimate, maybe so, but you don't need to be physical to be in a relationship, and you can betray their feelings all the same
Though you are quite fair to point out jane doesn't make a big deal out of that, even if thor himself thinks it's relevant it's not to her at that moment
So I wonder why do you think he made the point of highlighting it happened then, what was the purpose story wise
Last edited by kilderkin; 03-26-2018 at 04:29 PM.
Aaron clearly meant for the scene to convey that Thor had cheated on Jane. It takes enormous twisting to suggest otherwise.
Perverse? Well there's an impartial word with no judgement attached to it LOL
Yeah. No.The context of Thor mentioning his ‘dalliances’ is during a conversation in which both parties are failing to communicate. Jane as much as Odinson. Jane remains uninterested in his talk of dalliances, it wasn’t what she was talking about. Nobody accused him of doing anything wrong, nobody said he had affairs or even that he had sex. A dalliance is a soft word. It describes meaningless flirtation, the word is often a couched term for casual sex, but couched terms are not direct. A dalliance is the kind of thing that happens at parties. A brief liaison without lasting consequence. The term is often used by people of a higher class referring to brief affairs with people that would never be considered marriageable. Jane ignores the whole thing because she wasn’t talking about that, but she equally fails to make clear to Odinson what she is referring to.
The fact that Thor brought it up at all in the context of her being angry at him and seeking revenge is enough to communicate that whatever the action was, Jane didn't appreciate it. I am sure that Aaron did indeed for Thor to try and communicate that it was "a brief liason with no lasting consequences" but when one looks at the whole conversation in context then any interpretation other than him admitting to cheating is either poor writing from the author or wishful thinking from the reader. Sorry.
So what you're saying here is that 'dalliance' doesn't mean anything unless they've had sex [an interesting take] but Aaron has shown that they had sex. So Thor only feels guilty for something he did, but really it wasn't the wrong thing even though he and apparently Jane both felt it was.Also, bear in mind Jane and Thor’s actual consumation only occurs formally in Aaron’s story. Until Aaron clearly shows them having slept together any dalliances would be meaningless anyway. It is not as if canon previously had them going to bed with each other. All it ever showed was a chaste relationship with lots of wistful thought bubbles. The presumed timeframe of this consumation, given that it happened in Asgard, also suggests that there was no actual time for Thor to have been unfaithful because within a short time Jane would be dispatched back to earth and written out of the story. So any guilt Odinson feels is entirely based on his own feelings for Jane prior to this, and prior to them really being a couple.
Sure, that makes no sense at all.
Words in a story are NEVER inconsequential.The whole thing is as inconsequential as the word dalliance.
I would have said so as well, but if that was not the case then he sure as hell didn't frame the conversation very well, IMO.
But given that he seems to be a technically accomplished writer, I find that unlikely.
Last edited by brettc1; 03-26-2018 at 07:28 PM.
If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not
“The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor
not that its not a serious threat to Thor. but Mangog has always looked like a cartoon bulldog to me. I've never been able to take it seriously because of it. might as well have Sweetums kill some gods.
Yes, and the more you look back the more that is the case. Casting an eye over the entire time of Jane with the hammer, the consistently building theme by the writers is that she is the better of the two of them.
Even going way back to when she first appeared, before we even knew was under the helm, the night spent carousing with the Warriors Three was about her doing everything that Thor could do, only smarter.
As for the dalliances comment, here is how one website summed it up...
While Jane tries to explain how being Thor is both saving her life from the cancer ravaging her body and undoing the progress her chemotherapy is trying to accomplish, he's too preoccupied theorising whether Jane became Thor to get back at him for cheating on her while they were dating. Their exchange doesn't quite do all that much towards moving the book's plot along, but it highlights the ways in which Odinson's been a dick to the people around him ever since he slipped into his depression.
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/06/th...ther-new-thor/
If Aaron's intention is to create a Thor who actually ISN"T worthy of Mjolnir, he does a pretty good job right there. His words and the look on his face are about a guy who is giving Odin a run for his money in the self-absorbed ass-hate race.
Last edited by brettc1; 03-26-2018 at 09:16 PM.
If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not
“The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor
Yeah, Aaron took the deconstruction too far here. He practically tore everything down and everything is now broken.
I’ve been one of the staunchest defenders of Aaron too but come on, Thor never even got Mjolnir back and it’s been apparently destroyed by the wielder who’s been shown to be more worthy than Thor. I don’t know if this was Aaron’s intention but he inadvertently made Odin and Thor come across far worse now than ever before.
I fully understand the need to show Jane as worthy of wielding Mjolnir but that shouldn’t be done through nullifying and tossing away decades of character development. IMO, Jason Aaron dropped the ball....hard.
Last edited by Username taken; 03-26-2018 at 11:14 PM.