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  1. #211
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    CBR is like an extension of DC's PR department and even their review is basically it's a boring tonal mess, but read it because it's Frank Miller. This is going to be a Trainwreck
    Last edited by Yoda; 05-22-2019 at 05:35 AM.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    CBR is like an extension of DC's PR department and even their review is basically it's a boring tonal mess, but read it because it's Frank Miller. This is going to be a Trainwreck
    We'll need a nickname for this Superman, like ASBAR's Crazy Steve

  3. #213
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    CBR is like an extension of DC's PR department and even their review is basically it's a boring tonal mess, but read it because it's Frank Miller. This is going to be a Trainwreck
    And not in a fun Neal Adams way. And, unlike Adams, he doesn't have any excuse because he used to be a great writer. I just re-read Batman: Year One yesterday. It's such a shame he's lost his talent. I hate to think it takes place in the same universe as this one.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  4. #214
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    And not in a fun Neal Adams way. And, unlike Adams, he doesn't have any excuse because he used to be a great writer. I just re-read Batman: Year One yesterday. It's such a shame he's lost his talent. I hate to think it takes place in the same universe as this one.
    Miller was great in the 80's, but he's been coasting on that work for like the last 25 years. If he was anyone else, Holy Terror alone would have destroyed his career entirely. Let alone ASB&R and DKII. I mean, CBR basically says the first two issues are a mess but you know, buy the 3rd because maybe it'll be good. It's such a weird review, like they had to say something positive not to piss off DC, but it's so bad that they had to give these qualified recommendations.

    It almost feels like DC is trying to lower expectations for this.

  5. #215
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I get why they might have given Miller a chance with this. DKIII sold well apparently, so maybe that fooled them into thinking Miller might still have that spark that gave us his 80s classics. But I’m ticked off that this is the only upcoming Black Label Superbook we get. They seriously couldn’t get someone else to give us another BL Superman story since this is looking pretty controversial.

  6. #216
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    DKIII had a million variant covers to boost its sales also. This is a $9 book with 2 covers. I'm sure it'll sell well. The orders for #1 are already in, but if the early reviews are this tepid to bad, what are the actual sales going to look like. It's 100% returnable as well.

  7. #217
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    DKIII had a million variant covers to boost its sales also. This is a $9 book with 2 covers. I'm sure it'll sell well. The orders for #1 are already in, but if the early reviews are this tepid to bad, what are the actual sales going to look like. It's 100% returnable as well.
    And it’s yet another Origin story. There’s going to be some reader apathy based on that alone. I seriously hope this is the last origin story for a couple decades.

  8. #218
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    And it’s yet another Origin story. There’s going to be some reader apathy based on that alone. I seriously hope this is the last origin story for a couple decades.
    It won't be. I'm looking at five year swaths until the current editorial regime is out and until one that really loves Superman is in, then I expect one more and they'll ride that out.

    So never.

    At the very least, it'll be nice to see the Kents alive for a book or two every few years.

  9. #219
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    If he was anyone else, Holy Terror alone would have destroyed his career entirely. Let alone ASB&R and DKII.
    If he was anyone else, I don't think we would see this much attention on reviewing the story a month early. At least, we didn't have a discussion similar to the first few Bendis stories.

    And I thought ASBAR was pretty great overall, haha.

    I mean, CBR basically says the first two issues are a mess but you know, buy the 3rd because maybe it'll be good. It's such a weird review, like they had to say something positive not to piss off DC, but it's so bad that they had to give these qualified recommendations.

    It almost feels like DC is trying to lower expectations for this.
    Since they're getting reviews put out there, I'd say you may be on to something. But I don't really think the review calls it bad. Basically it has a new twist on his career, it has good Romita art, and it's called "very weird." Dunno, I guess I don't really demand comics meet particularly high expectations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    And itĀ’s yet another Origin story. ThereĀ’s going to be some reader apathy based on that alone.
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  10. #220
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    It won't be. I'm looking at five year swaths until the current editorial regime is out and until one that really loves Superman is in, then I expect one more and they'll ride that out.

    So never.

    At the very least, it'll be nice to see the Kents alive for a book or two every few years.
    I hate to be cynical but this sounds about right. I don't think he'll ever have a carved in stone origin. It's one of the reasons I have a problem with following the mainstream books. I've thought about getting the Lois book when it comes out but I just don't trust mainstream continuity. I think they are just as divided at DC as we fans are on what it should be.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  11. #221
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    If he was anyone else, I don't think we would see this much attention on reviewing the story a month early. At least, we didn't have a discussion similar to the first few Bendis stories.
    Yeah. That is definitely true. I think part of it could also be related to the overall belief that Miller has hated Superman for decades. The intention might have been to get the early reviews out to disprove that. I don't think the reviews are quite going the way they were intended though.

    Since they're getting reviews put out there, I'd say you may be on to something. But I don't really think the review calls it bad. Basically it has a new twist on his career, it has good Romita art, and it's called "very weird." Dunno, I guess I don't really demand comics meet particularly high expectations.
    I don't know. Comic reviews, particularly of big name books, are usually very, very kind. These are not those types of reviews. They have all been pretty middling at best. With most if not all of the unqualified praise going to JRJR (although one compares it to looking like a coloring book, which I thought was pretty brutal). There been no unqualified "good" review. They all note the poor dialogue, weird narration, and story choices which amounts to basically being damned with faint praise. Getting into some of the spoilers

    spoilers:
    Lana's attempted rape has been heavily criticised by almost all of the reviews and seems particularly egregious, tone deaf, and out of place. The Lori chapter seems to be a mess as well. The treatment of women in general seems like it's typical of Frank Miller. He doesn't write women characters well at all, let alone a believable romance which is how he characterized the themes of this series. I mean, his writing is what it is there. He's not suddenly going to be able to write women well at this point in his career. I'd settle for non-offensive portrayal and I'm not sure he even cleared that bar from the way it's been described.
    end of spoilers

    With movies, the general belief is the earlier the reviews the stronger the belief in the film. Movies with review embargos basically up to the release date are not ones the studios have confidence in. It seems at least here, along with the possibility they were trying to dispel the Miller hates Superman notion, they may have had some sense of confidence in the book. It appears to have been misplaced.

    And I thought ASBAR was pretty great overall, haha.
    It had good art, I'll give you that.

    I'll admit. I don't have a high opinion of Frank Miller, at all. He's like the epitome of someone coasting on long past successes. But I wanted this to be good. My view of Superman is one of him being a romantic character written into the DNA, so the idea of exploring his main love interests really appealed to me.
    Last edited by Yoda; 05-23-2019 at 05:50 AM.

  12. #222
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Well if I'm honest, as much as I love the Daredevil and Wolverine characters, and sort of like Batman, with the exceptions of Year One and Born Again I think his mainstream work isn't worth the fuss for people born after DKR. By now cliche, easily dated stuff. Associating this with that stuff seems like a shortcut, too. But for a big name creator with an exclusive contract and little to no other output for the past few years this project has been in comic news, I don't think there's a logic to believe that this is less than his best shot. Whether I like it in the end, I respect it enough.

    And I feel a little better that comic sites are specifically listing its problems instead of all vague fluff. Or altogether holding off, because going in blind with the names involved and price tag would mean at least a massively successful first issue. I think the willingness and honesty again points to a sincere effort and a little confidence from DC.

    Oh, and because I pick on DKR I will also have to admit ASBAR is largely a trainwreck with solid ideas and pretty art. But issues 7-9 are glue. Batman and Robin vs Hal Jordan is like the best comic fight ever and I don't even think Morrison will argue for better treatment of Hal.
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  13. #223
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Well if I'm honest, as much as I love the Daredevil and Wolverine characters, and sort of like Batman, with the exceptions of Year One and Born Again I think his mainstream work isn't worth the fuss for people born after DKR. By now cliche, easily dated stuff. Associating this with that stuff seems like a shortcut, too. But for a big name creator with an exclusive contract and little to no other output for the past few years this project has been in comic news, I don't think there's a logic to believe that this is less than his best shot. Whether I like it in the end, I respect it enough.

    And I feel a little better that comic sites are specifically listing its problems instead of all vague fluff. Or altogether holding off, because going in blind with the names involved and price tag would mean at least a massively successful first issue. I think the willingness and honesty again points to a sincere effort and a little confidence from DC.

    Oh, and because I pick on DKR I will also have to admit ASBAR is largely a trainwreck with solid ideas and pretty art. But issues 7-9 are glue. Batman and Robin vs Hal Jordan is like the best comic fight ever and I don't even think Morrison will argue for better treatment of Hal.
    I'm a big fan of his 80's work even though I was born in 1996, and I would say his work in DD holds pretty well overall (And personally, I love it). But I agree about the Hal Jordan fight, I think ASBAR is an atrocious comic, but I admit I enjoy reading it for how bad and over the top it is and that particular fight is one of the highlights of ASBAR. From the idea itself to the execution, and Jim Lee's art adds a lot too
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  14. #224
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    ASBAR is one of those “so bad it’s good” comics as opposed to something like DKSA which is just plain awful. Least ASBAR has Lee art.

  15. #225
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    With the official report from Bleeding Cool that this series is officially in continuity to Miller’s DKR series, any dwindling interest I possibly had in this series has gone to absolute zero. What a stupid idea.

    I will not be bothering to pick this up. Why even bother with a series supposedly focused on women when we know for sure Lois is getting killed off???? So much for everyone trying to claim that we should give Miller a chance because he might be “kind” to her. What a load of garbage.

    I’m not at all shocked that the series is getting middling reviews anymore than I’m shocked that there is apparently a sexual assault in the first issue. Frank Miller should not be allowed to touch DC’s female characters anymore and it’s frankly a disgrace that DC allows it.

    I expect this series to be ax irrelevant as Frank Miller has become. Glad I can save my money.

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