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  1. #16
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    the fact the fans voted for him to die would say different no?
    Two things regarding that issue:
    - As far as I know, most people who voted for Jason to die, wanted the idea of dropping Robin out of the Batman equation itself, not Jason specifically. They didn't like the idea of Batman working with a partner, and a kid to be more precise. Not even the writer at the time. This has also been the fan group of "Batman is a lone wolf and works alone" that is still pretty numerous to this day.
    - Results of said poll were very evenly matched; less than a hundred votes made the difference, and then you have the issue of that one fan than dialed the "kill" number on automatic and achieve like 300 votes or so for that option.

    Edit: ok, it was more like 300, but still, they made the difference.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 03-24-2018 at 07:42 AM. Reason: grammar, and also messing with numbers

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    the fact the fans voted for him to die would say different no?
    You do know how many "fans" voted for him to die and how many calls for his death were made by each fan sorta throws it all off, don't you? (Remember, people could call/vote as many times as they wanted to as long as they paid 50 for each call.)
    Jason was also a victim of a whiplash personality change as a result of CoIE.
    Originally, he was basically a Dick Grayson clone; after CoIE, they recreated his origin/character so he was now an anti-Dick.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    the fact the fans voted for him to die would say different no?
    Sure, if you want to be superficial like that.

  4. #19
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    Sure, if you want to be superficial like that.
    It's beyond superficial since we only know how many calls each option received; we don't know how many people voted for each option because apparently there was no limit on how many votes could be made per a telephone number, nor do we know the percentage of readers who actually voted.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    the fact the fans voted for him to die would say different no?
    There was never a chance to vote for the death of an other Robin, so that doesn't say much in comparison.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    Sure, if you want to be superficial like that.
    if people want you dead then you must not have a good reception

  7. #22
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    Btw. they don't even give clear criteria on what they are basing their list.

    How competent he was.
    How interesting/entertaining he was to read about.
    How good his stories were.

  8. #23
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    the fact the fans voted for him to die would say different no?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    if people want you dead then you must not have a good reception
    I'm not a huge Jason fan, but I think this is a spurious argument. The margin on people wanting Jason dead was pretty slim, so it's not like it was even 60% of Batman fans want Jason dead.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

  9. #24
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    Before I read the list I knew they would put Jason last. Dick is obviously going to be no.1, no arguments there but all these elseworld Robins I never even heard of over Jason. Oh well seems they never even bothered to read his actual time as Robin before making the list. Oh well. Glad Stephanie was on there; since they usually forget about her short spell.

  10. #25
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    Maybe Damian is a better character and source of conflict for Batman then Tim, but he is a terrible Robin.
    I think Tim was definitely a Robin that better complimented Bruce then Damian does, even if I actually like Bruce and Damian together.

    Whether he did the job better really depends on how you view the role of Robin alongside Batman.

    But there's a reason in Inc. that Tim went back to being Bruce's partner and the first real mission with Bruce and Damian together made Bruce realize their partnership just couldn't really work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Except he isn’t. Like him or not, and despite his attitude, he’s actually quite good at the job. Hell he even died for his Batman.
    Wouldn't every Robin die for Batman, though? Before Damian most of them have gotten pretty darn close.
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    It's beyond superficial since we only know how many calls each option received; we don't know how many people voted for each option because apparently there was no limit on how many votes could be made per a telephone number, nor do we know the percentage of readers who actually voted.
    And we still don't know what Bat-Mite voted for...

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Jason should be higher. I don't even care that much, but putting Toy Wonder and some imaginary stories Robins above him is pretty ridiculous

    The #1 and #2 choices were pretty close to dead on though.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrikito View Post
    Jason and Steph under Carrie Kelly?
    Carrie's story had a way bigger impact than any individual story the other Robins had. Tim had an ongoing, but not one issue was a bigger deal than TDKR. Dick outranks her only because he was the first Robin, made it into most of the other media adaptations, and made the identity iconic. She arguably should be higher than Tim and maybe even Damian.

    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    Maybe Damian is a better character and source of conflict for Batman then Tim, but he is a terrible Robin.
    Damian is a great Robin, and him being a better character and possible source of conflict is why he is a better Robin.

    Quote Originally Posted by NightwingIvI View Post
    This was my favorite response that I saw on Twitter
    And I completely agreed with it. Batman needs two Robins at most, and he could probably get away with just having one in his story.

  12. #27
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Damian is a great Robin, and him being a better character and possible source of conflict is why he is a better Robin.
    I mean, beyond a lot of that being subjective, Tim and Bruce had plenty of conflict in their relationship.
    And I completely agreed with it. Batman needs two Robins at most, and he could probably get away with just having one in his story.
    Well, we only ever really have one active Robin while the others do their own thing and have their own identities (even if Tim's is a Robin derivative name), so I don't think it's that big of a deal.

  13. #28
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    It’s not like Newsarama created the narrative that Jason was a bad Robin. He was the Robin who was voted to die, the semantics behind the vote doesn’t change that. His time as Robin is not a success story. Even his resurgence as Red Hood plays off the narrative that he was a bad Robin.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 03-24-2018 at 09:59 AM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I'm not a huge Jason fan, but I think this is a spurious argument. The margin on people wanting Jason dead was pretty slim, so it's not like it was even 60% of Batman fans want Jason dead.
    if even a few people want you dead that not a good sign, I actually dont like that they left it up to fan vote, it was enough for it to go through and that still too much

  15. #30
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, beyond a lot of that being subjective, Tim and Bruce had plenty of conflict in their relationship.
    Well naturally (the subjective bit). And I'm sure there has been conflict between Bruce and Tim, but it probably wouldn't be that interesting to me because I find Tim terribly uninteresting in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, we only ever really have one active Robin while the others do their own thing and have their own identities (even if Tim's is a Robin derivative name), so I don't think it's that big of a deal.
    Having one Robin at a time isn't a problem, it's having like 4-6 in the history. That's ridiculous and makes the identity seem like less of a big deal. It dilutes the brand and comes off as being an internship for teens to train with Batman before they graduate. I'd rather it just be Dick's identity that he passes to ONE other person (preferably Damian) and call it a day. When he passed it on to Jason in pre-Crisis it was a huge deal. 5 Robins later, it's like, who cares? Everybody gets to be Robin.

    But obviously, that's never going to happen in the near future, if at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    It’s not like Newsarama created the narrative that Jason was a bad Robin. He was the Robin who was voted to die, the semantics behind the vote doesn’t change that. His story is not a success story. Even his resurgence as Red Hood plays off the narrative that he was a bad Robin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    if even a few people want you dead that not a good sign, I actually dont like that they left it up to fan vote, it was enough for it to go through and that still too much
    I think it's also possible that a lot of those callers hated the very idea of Robin in general. Dick might very well have survived the poll because he was generally more liked than Jason at the time, but I have no doubt that Dick would have received a fair number of "kill the annoying, campy little idiot and let Batman be a loner" votes.

    But there is no shame in embracing the fact that Jason wasn't that great as a Robin. It's not as if it's a great deterrent to his character. He gets to be Red Hood, and he's far more popular in that identity than he EVER was as Robin, and it matters less than the fact that he died and came back.

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