Your relaunch of a comic that failed

[Trey Strain]

How would you like to relaunch a comic that failed?

You don't need to say you would put a great creative team on it. Everyone wants a great creative team on a comic. I mean, what would you change about the concept that could make it sell this time? That might include personnel changes.

[The Darknight Detective]

How would you like to relaunch a comic that failed?

I would put a Bat- in front of the lead character's codename.

Seriously, none of us here really have the means to know, beyond those titles that are actually published, what sells and what doesn't. If we had our hands on scientific polling conducted by DC, then we would be able to have a clue.

[Trey Strain]

I would put a Bat- in front of the lead character's codename.

Seriously, none of us here really have the means to know, beyond those titles that are actually published, what sells and what doesn't. If we had our hands on scientific polling conducted by DC, then we would be able to have a clue.

There's always an intuitive aspect in business. Sometimes people don't know what they like until they see it. Nobody knew they wanted the Beatles' music until they heard it. That's the part that's an art.

But you can also look at what people have actually bought or shown that they like. It's why all that information got swiped from Facebook. That's the part that's a science, as far as business can be considered a science.

In comics, there's another factor. It's what changes might stimulate the writers and the readers. Again, you don't know for sure. But if a property has shown to be stale, then you have to try something new. Trying the same failed thing again with no changes probably won't stimulate anyone.

[Elmo]

i'd relaunch all of the books that got cancelled in the implosion

[SJNeal]

I would put a Bat- in front of the lead character's codename.

Oh how I wish that weren't true...

[The Darknight Detective]

There's always an intuitive aspect in business. Sometimes people don't know what they like until they see it. Nobody knew they wanted the Beatles' music until they heard it. That's the part that's an art.

But you can also look at what people have actually bought or shown that they like. It's why all that information got swiped from Facebook. That's the part that's a science, as far as business can be considered a science.

In comics, there's another factor. It's what changes might stimulate the writers and the readers. Again, you don't know for sure. But if a property has shown to be stale, then you have to try something new. Trying the same failed thing again with no changes probably won't stimulate anyone.

But is it always staleness that hurts the sales of a particular title or just not enough disposable income to boost sales? If you're a Batman fan, i.e., you might have just enough money to buy the comics from that family of characters and that's it. You might enjoy all of the other comics, but you're tapped out to purchase them. In that case, it's not about the quality of the comics. I know I always wanted to (but couldn't) buy everything on the newsstand when I was a kid.

[The Darknight Detective]

Oh how I wish that weren't true...

It wasn't always the case, but it has been the past couple of decades.

[Trey Strain]

But is it always staleness that hurts the sales of a particular title or just not enough disposable income to boost sales? If you're a Batman fan, i.e., you might have just enough money to buy the comics from that family of characters and that's it. You might enjoy all of the other comics, but you're tapped out to purchase them. In that case, it's not about the quality of the comics. I know I always wanted to (but couldn't) buy everything on the newsstand when I was a kid.

That's why I want the floppies printed on newsprint. So people could and would buy more comics.

But beyond that, Marvel is the competition. DC should try to get people to spend all their comics dollars with DC. New ideas for old properties would help do that.

[SJNeal]

It wasn't always the case, but it has been the past couple of decades.

Yeah, I remember the good ol' days...

But is it always staleness that hurts the sales of a particular title or just not enough disposable income to boost sales? If you're a Batman fan, i.e., you might have just enough money to buy the comics from that family of characters and that's it. You might enjoy all of the other comics, but you're tapped out to purchase them. In that case, it's not about the quality of the comics. I know I always wanted to (but couldn't) buy everything on the newsstand when I was a kid.

To (kind of) speak to this, this is why I do think other titles could sell better if DC didn't release so much Batman material. If someone only has $xx.00 to spend on comics in a given month, I contend that they will eat up that budget, even if there isn't enough titles on the shelf w/ their favorite character to do so.

I know, I know... completely senseless from a business standpoint. But just sayin'...

[WillieMorgan]

But is it always staleness that hurts the sales of a particular title or just not enough disposable income to boost sales? If you're a Batman fan, i.e., you might have just enough money to buy the comics from that family of characters and that's it. You might enjoy all of the other comics, but you're tapped out to purchase them. In that case, it's not about the quality of the comics. I know I always wanted to (but couldn't) buy everything on the newsstand when I was a kid.

So true. That's the real issue here. The comic-book industry produces so much new material every month that it's impossible for your average reader to realistically read it all.

You say you couldn't afford all the comics you wanted as a kid Darknight? I still can't now. Well, technically I could if I didn't impose spending limits on myself like most adults do.

In certain respects this is very much a buyer's market. The amount of choice we have available to us at any given time to purchase is staggering. With that kind of market, things are always gonna fall between the cracks and 'fail'.

[Trey Strain]

Something I suggested in the Marvel forum was killing off Reed Richards and replacing him with the Silver Surfer, after powering Norrin down to a reasonable level. Some people wouldn't like that because it would ruin their childhood, or for other reasons. But it would probably stimulate the writers and the readers, and it might revitalize a stale property.

It depends on whether you see that something just isn't working any more and isn't likely to start working again. Maybe the FF could work again some other way. But something probably needs to change.

DC has many properties like that.

[married guy]

Manhunter - Words cannot describe how much I loved this character (Kate & Co), and Marc Andreyko was really writing some great stuff.
It was a shame it was cancelled last time as I thought the characters had a lot more mileage in them.
Director Bones and the DEO, Chase, Dylan & his ties to the shadier parts of the DCU. You can write any sort of story and it will work.

[WillieMorgan]

Something I suggested in the Marvel forum was killing off Reed Richards and replacing him with the Silver Surfer, after powering Norrin down to a reasonable level. Some people wouldn't like that because it would ruin their childhood, or for other reasons. But it would probably stimulate the writers and the readers, and it might revitalize a stale property.

It depends on whether you see that something just isn't working any more and isn't likely to start working again. Maybe the FF could work again some other way. But something probably needs to change.

DC has many properties like that.

The problem with your suggestions is that they tend to show very little to no understanding of the core properties themselves and are also couched in terms that suggest that the series is permanently doomed unless DC follow your 'instructions' to the letter. There is absolutely no evidence that turning a long running comic-book property on it's head would permanently improve it's commercial fortunes. Just a hunch on your part that's often sold to us as if it's gospel.

There's plenty of franchises and characters I'd like to see thrive at DC. Removing key elements of what made those series so special in the first place is a dead end though. You suggest that this would benefit those franchises and bring them out of a rut. Actually the opposite is more likely. I'd love to see a permanent Martian Manhunter series. It's a long shot. Not because there's anything fundamentally wrong with the character or his mythology but because it's a punishing market.

[Trey Strain]

The problem with your suggestions is that they tend to show very little to no understanding of the core properties themselves and are also couched in terms that suggest that the series is permanently doomed unless DC follow your 'instructions' to the letter. There is absolutely no evidence that turning a long running comic-book property on it's head would permanently improve it's commercial fortunes. Just a hunch on your part that's often sold to us as if it's gospel.

There's plenty of franchises and characters I'd like to see thrive at DC. Removing key elements of what made those series so special in the first place is a dead end though. You suggest that this would benefit those franchises and bring them out of a rut. Actually the opposite is more likely. I'd love to see a permanent Martian Manhunter series. It's a long shot. Not because there's anything fundamentally wrong with the character or his mythology but because it's a punishing market.

In business you can be product oriented or you can be market oriented. Market orientation almost always wins.

If you're product oriented, you say, "I'm going to sell THIS product, damn it!" If you're market oriented, you say, "I like to pay my bills and eat, so I'll sell what people will buy from me."

Maybe the Martian Manhunter would sell with no changes, and maybe it should get one more try as is. But the evidence shows that it's reasonable to suspect otherwise. The thread is about how you would change a DC property so that it might sell. It's not about guaranteed ways to sell the comics. There's no such thing, any more than it's guaranteed you'll wake up in the morning. Are there any you would change?

[WillieMorgan]

Maybe the Martian Manhunter would sell with no changes, but it's reasonable to think otherwise. The thread is about how you would change a DC property so that it might sell. Are there any you would change?

Yeah, it's very reasonable to think that a Martian Manhunter series isn't gonna sell well enough to justify being an ongoing. Recent history tells us that. The recent series by Rob Williams was very good but was still gonna last a year tops. If I had some secret formula to change that then I certainly would do so. However, I wouldn't want to change the character to such a degree that he's not really the same anymore. If you spend every waking hour treating every character or team as if they're a potential Batman if only this or that were altered then you're gonna end up forever disappointed.

You recently suggested moving the Legion Of Super Heroes into the present day. That's a classic example of you just not getting them. We've been there before up to a degree with the different Legion Lost series. It was quite refreshing at first but soon got old. Doing so again would be no more of a stop-gap solution than the 'bringing in a fresh creative team' idea that you so disparage. Are there any DC series I'd like to change? Yeah, loads. Not to a degree that they'd lose their uniqueness though.