Wonder Woman #43 - Discussion & Spoilers

[Mel Dyer]

Exactly. I’ve been saying this for issues and issues and issues. It’s nice that it’s a Wonder Woman story, but it should be bigger, because Darkseid. (And I’d say the same thing if he appeared in a Superman title.) I guess they wanted to give Diana a chance at a solo showdown with the ultimate evil in the DCU. <shrugs shoulders>

The stakes should be much higher, with Darkseid in the picture. There should be characters talking, as if they're not sure everyone's coming out of this mess, intact. Maybe, James doesn't want to use Ferdinand; an emotive character, like Etta, and Diana's best friend, ..at least, should be right in the middle of this. The characters, presently on stage - Diana, Steve, Jason, the Oddfellows - seem to have no human or emotional connection to each other that's even mildly interesting. There's something that's definitely off about the tone of this story...

And the interaction of the characters, or lack thereof, has everything to do with that.

Furthermore, Grail's relationship to the Anti-life Equation - she's a vessel or goddess of Anti-life - so central to her motivation and very existence, is nowhere in the story. The AE isn't even mentioned by two characters, who are next to obsessed with it. A Darkseid stor-rr...how is that?! That makes NO sense. With Grail and Papi'seid, everything they do is a means to the same end - cosmic activation of the AE...period! Without it, they're like puppets on fraying strings - no motivation, no purpose.

Darkseid might be the most purposeful super-villain, ever. That's also off, in WW #43.

[WonderScott]

The stakes should be much higher, with Darkseid in the picture. There should be characters talking, as if they're not sure everyone's coming out of this mess, intact. Maybe, James doesn't want to use Ferdinand; an emotive character, like Etta, and Diana's best friend, ..at least, should be right in the middle of this. The characters, presently on stage - Diana, Steve, Jason, the Oddfellows - seem to have no human or emotional connection to each other that's even mildly interesting. There's something that's definitely off about the tone of this story...

And the interaction of the characters, or lack thereof, has everything to do with that.

Furthermore, Grail's relationship to the Anti-life Equation - she's a vessel or goddess of Anti-life - so central to her motivation and very existence, is nowhere in the story. The AE isn't even mentioned by two characters, who are next to obsessed with it. A Darkseid stor-rr...how is that?! That makes NO sense. With Grail and Papi'seid, everything they do is a means to the same end - cosmic activation of the AE...period! Without it, they're like puppets on fraying strings - no motivation, no purpose.

Darkseid might be the most purposeful super-villain, ever. That's also off, in WW #43.

I like where you are headed with the Steve, Etta, and Ferdinand trio. I had not been considering Ferdinand too much, until you've brought him up and I'm starting to like the idea more and more.

Despite their appearance and popularity in the movie, I'm not finding the Oddfellows very compelling on the page, as it were. Probably, because too much is going on with Diana, Steve, Jason, Darkseid, and Grail (which is seemingly hard enough to handle well) and there's basically no more room to really devote time and attention to them. And...they're detracting from making Etta and ARGUS a greater presence in the book.

I get we want to build out an ARGUS team and organization (that's my wish at least - Wonder Woman should "own" ARGUS like Batman owns Arkham or Superman owns STARLabs and Cadmus) and Steve needs some pals to hang around with, but I can think of more interesting characters to either create or add as ARGUS agents. Oh yeah, and have some female agents.

The vibe of the story seems off to me, because it seems its purpose is to push a whole lot of plot with some tacked on emotion. Which doesn't dive deep enough into the characters or get expressed enough for anyone to care. Womp, womp.

I liked the issue with the premiere of Blue Snowman and Zara that focused on Steve and Diana's relationship and their back and forth. At least we got them talking for a decent amount of time. And Cale and Diana's showdown resurfaced the Cale I evilly admire, but everything else has felt like "let's get through this quick on to the next thing" without a ton of what it meant to the characters - it feels more surface-y. I'm rambling, but there's a richness of character lost that's not showing up in the briefness of the sequences. Granted that's tough to write richly, but succinctly at the same time.

I'm losing faith in the New God Grail. She had an auspicious introduction and tale in Darkseid War, but she's become as tired as her half-shaved hairstyle. Just another lackey to Darkseid. Even if she's been playing him and turns on him at the end of this story, it feels more deflated than an exciting plot twist at this point. We've been given no indication or clue that she's questioning dear old dad or has an ulterior motive since this story of helping him regain power began. (Which BTW, TOTALLY FLIES IN THE STONY FACE OF THE PLOT OF DARKSEID WAR ANYWAY. She wanted him d-e-a-d. These two should be at odds with one another IMHO.)

At this point I'll interject with my go-to absolution and resolution for everything currently happening: Doctor Manhattan did it.

Here's hoping post-Doomsday Clock gives some new life to Diana's corner of the universe.

(Cute art though.)

[vasir12]

I get we want to build out an ARGUS team and organization (that's my wish at least - Wonder Woman should "own" ARGUS like Batman owns Arkham or Superman owns STARLabs and Cadmus) and Steve needs some pals to hang around with, but I can think of more interesting characters to either create or add as ARGUS agents. Oh yeah, and have some female agents.

This and the "greatest men are working on it" line makes me wonder if Robinson might be missing the point of the comic (cause we can already tell he's missing the point to a lot of these characters.) Some actual prominent females allies of Diana in a Wonder Woman book would be nice

[Gaelforce]

This and the "greatest men are working on it" line makes me wonder if Robinson might be missing the point of the comic (cause we can already tell he's missing the point to a lot of these characters.) Some actual prominent females allies of Diana in a Wonder Woman book would be nice

So far with Robinson:

Jason is faster than his sister (how he knows this I do not know)
Diana is not a planner - she needs Steve to plan (so much for the wisdom of Athena)
Diana is unable to figure out anything, but the 'greatest men' at ARGUS can
Diana can't handle two Furies without getting cut, but a handful of men from ARGUS can

Robinson has definitely put me off with this approach.

[Jackalope89]

So far with Robinson:

Jason is faster than his sister (how he knows this I do not know)
Diana is not a planner - she needs Steve to plan (so much for the wisdom of Athena)
Diana is unable to figure out anything, but the 'greatest men' at ARGUS can
Diana can't handle two Furies without getting cut, but a handful of men from ARGUS can

Robinson has definitely put me off with this approach.

Can't forget having her discard the Lasso in favor of literally trying to beat the information out of the Furies (which failed spectacularly for a variety of reasons).

[kjn]

So far with Robinson:

Jason is faster than his sister (how he knows this I do not know)
Diana is not a planner - she needs Steve to plan (so much for the wisdom of Athena)
Diana is unable to figure out anything, but the 'greatest men' at ARGUS can
Diana can't handle two Furies without getting cut, but a handful of men from ARGUS can

Robinson has definitely put me off with this approach.

Not disagreeing with your other points, but wisdom is an attribute that is frequently misunderstood, and often meant something else in the ancient world than it means today. I think it started out as possessing knowledge, especially secret or old knowledge. Often it also carried implications of sound judgment, being able to understand others, and reach good workable compromises. All of which should be rather integral parts of Diana.

That said, Athena was also the goddess of strategy, which definitely includes planning. On the other hand, that was something that Athena did not gift to Diana :-)

(It also gives another aspect on Diana as the Justice League secretary: she is the secretary-general, the keeper of ALL the secrets of the Justice League.)

[WonderScott]

This and the "greatest men are working on it" line makes me wonder if Robinson might be missing the point of the comic (cause we can already tell he's missing the point to a lot of these characters.) Some actual prominent females allies of Diana in a Wonder Woman book would be nice

That line of dialogue made me seethe a little.

[greymoon]

The only thing that I liked was that WW wasn't using a sword and shield.

[Zahina]

The only thing that I liked was that WW wasn't using a sword and shield.

How about the red star on the tiara and the white stars on the battle skirt?

[greymoon]

How about the red star on the tiara and the white stars on the battle skirt?

I don't get it
There isn't much to like about this run so the only positive thing to come out of it was that she wasn't using a sword and shield for once.

[Dr. Poison]

I thought this issue was solid. I think Diana was making an attempt to earn the Furies' trust when she freed them in hopes of challenging in them combat for the answers to her questions. I loved that Robinson did his research on Steve and pointed out how Steve assembled the original New 52 Justice League of America to take down the original New 52 Justice League. Jason's motivations are becoming more and more mysterious. I'm interested in seeing how his story plays out but that costume of his is still an eye-sore.

[Last Son of Krypton]

What's happened to Etta Candy? I don't remember seeing her during Robinson's run.

[Mel Dyer]

What's happened to Etta Candy? I don't remember seeing her during Robinson's run.

At this point, I'll take Hooper back. At least, he amused us.

I think this comic needs to lighten up, a little. It needs some warmth or humanity from somewhere. Maybe, a laugh...some comedy - and Etta brings all of that, in one character. I would dare say that, if you get Etta and Diana pitch-perfect, in a good story, the rest of the comic sorts itself out! She was created to compliment Diana, who doesn't have as much narrative room to be vulnerable, imperfect and human, as Etta does. She has such an important role to play in this comic, and I miss her desperately, ..because the Diana-and-Steve thing is boring the hell out of me.

Oh, if only Prince Jason or Jason Hooper or whoever ..could disappear long enough for me to miss him? I don't need to see him fumbling and struggling with being a superhero; I just need him to go away and come back, as Racer X or the Helena Wayne Huntress - someone cool, mysterious and formidable, ..like my old pal, Andros, used to be. Like Etta, the Olympi...I mean 'Jason' ..should be an interesting compliment to Wonder Woman, in some way, ..and nothing more or less, than that.

Where are the high stakes in this story that has an uber-villain, like Darkseid, loose on Earth? What does Diana stand to lose, if she fails? What is the threat to the world, if she fails? What does that mean to her, right now? She doesn't seem very worried about Steve; so, what or who, besides Jason, whom we barely know, does she care about in this story? What is going on in this story that we readers can emotionally invest in?

I think the presence of Etta or some other character, who isn't a goddess or a Ken doll - at this point, Jason is just another Ken doll - could solve some of these problems.

[Last Son of Krypton]

At this point, I'll take Hooper back. At least, he amused us.

I think this comic needs to lighten up, a little. It needs some warmth or humanity from somewhere. Maybe, a laugh...some comedy - and Etta brings all of that, in one character. I would dare say that, if you get Etta and Diana pitch-perfect, in a good story, the rest of the comic sorts itself out! She was created to compliment Diana, who doesn't have as much narrative room to be vulnerable, imperfect and human, as Etta does. She has such an important role to play in this comic, and I miss her desperately, ..because the Diana-and-Steve thing is boring the hell out of me.

Oh, if only Prince Jason or Jason Hooper or whoever ..could disappear long enough for me to miss him? I don't need to see him fumbling and struggling with being a superhero; I just need him to go away and come back, as Racer X or the Helena Wayne Huntress - someone cool, mysterious and formidable, ..like my old pal, Andros, used to be. Like Etta, the Olympi...I mean 'Jason' ..should be an interesting compliment to Wonder Woman, in some way, ..and nothing more or less, than that.

Where are the high stakes in this story that has an uber-villain, like Darkseid, loose on Earth? What does Diana stand to lose, if she fails? What is the threat to the world, if she fails? What does that mean to her, right now? She doesn't seem very worried about Steve; so, what or who, besides Jason, whom we barely know, does she care about in this story? What is going on in this story that we readers can emotionally invest in?

I think the presence of Etta or some other character, who isn't a goddess or a Ken doll - at this point, Jason is just another Ken doll - could solve some of these problems.

I feel that classic Etta is perceived as too "fun" for modern comic books.

[Mel Dyer]

I feel that classic Etta is perceived as too "fun" for modern comic books.

Rucka's Etta is basically a lesbian Mr. T of the A-Team. She works fine in the modern WW comic, if some editor will stand up for keeping her in the comic.

Now, if only some genius would bring Ferdinand back and make him Diana's go-to for mystical knowledge and the mythical world.