Justice Society - with or without these characters?

[DrNewGod]

But aren't people missing the point that people liked the JSA as they were in the past? The more you change what/who they were, the less they become who we wanted back in the first place!

I'm on your side Major. However, I will note that All-Star Squadron wasn't always exactly the way they were either.

[MajorHoy]

I'm on your side Major. However, I will note that All-Star Squadron wasn't always exactly the way they were either.

The JSA in All-Star Squadron was still the same membership.
They didn't add different members to the JSA itself in those stories.
Members of the JSA may have worked with other heroes they never met back in the Golden Age, but Roy Thomas wasn't claiming those new/different members to be part of the JSA membership.

You can write new stories set during the Golden Age, and they can even guest-star heroes who weren't part of the JSA back then. But don't pretend those heroes who weren't part of the JSA are/were now suddenly official members of the JSA!

[mikelmcknight72]

A lot depends on the setting, premise, and origin being used for the JSA. I'm presuming they are on and from the main Earth, they are older, and they were active in WWII. Here's what I'd do:

The actual Trinity plus Dick Grayson - Officially honorary/reserve members, but they don't show up much. Power Girl (Kara) would be the only Trinity related character who is actually an active, prominent member.

I enjoyed and miss a lot of the Johns era legacies: Cyclone, Citizen Steel, Damage, Atom Smasher, etc. I'd have included an aquatic character though. Maybe a cousin of Mera or a great or great great grandkid to Neptune Perkins & Tsunami?

If we had a different premise and/or setting, my answer would change a bit.

[MajorHoy]

And with DC having introduced the concept of Wonder Woman (Diana, not Hippolyta) possibly having been a member of the JSA back in the 1940s, I wonder if anybody's opinion on this question might have changed now?

[Lee Stone]

And with DC having introduced the concept of Wonder Woman (Diana, not Hippolyta) possibly having been a member of the JSA back in the 1940s, I wonder if anybody's opinion on this question might have changed now?

Well, as she was a member of the JSA originally, I'd say it fixes things.
We know the Golden Age Wonder Woman, also named Diana, didn't die before the end of the All-Star Comics run of JSA, so her living forever afterwards doesn't really contradict anything.

Now, they'd just have to reveal that Black Canary's mom was actually her grandmother. Or say it's been handed down from generation to generation. (You could give her mom the tacky '80s costume).

[MajorHoy]

Well, as she was a member of the JSA originally, I'd say it fixes things.
We know the Golden Age Wonder Woman, also named Diana, didn't die before the end of the All-Star Comics run of JSA, so her living forever afterwards doesn't really contradict anything.

Well, in the present-day, having Wonder Woman being much older / definitely more experienced as a costumed superhero than Superman and Batman does throw the "trinity" equality (of sorts) for a loop.

At least before having Diana be an immortal (and being a costumed adventurer eighty+ years earlier), there was a bit more equality among the three in terms of when they first began. That was more of a shared background.

[Dataweaver]

What DC has done as of DM#7 is to canonize the broken continuity. Everyone now remembers that Superman first arrived on Earth in 1939 and was an honorary member of the JSA until around 1957, when history changed to one where Superman made his Metropolis debut in 1957 and the JSA were banished to Earth 2. And so on.

This is what everyone in setting remembers; their memories are no longer restricted to the most recent iteration of the timeline. They remember each time the timeline changed, and what came before each change as well as what came after.

So Superman both was and wasn't a member of the original JSA, depending on which iteration you're considering. For the latest iteration, since people remember everything, therapists are going to be in great demand as they try to untangle multiple conflicting memories.

[MajorHoy]

What DC has done as of DM#7 is to canonize the broken continuity. Everyone now remembers that Superman first arrived on Earth in 1939 and was an honorary member of the JSA until around 1957, when history changed to one where Superman made his Metropolis debut in 1957 and the JSA were banished to Earth 2. And so on.

This is what everyone in setting remembers; their memories are no longer restricted to the most recent iteration of the timeline. They remember each time the timeline changed, and what came before each change as well as what came after.

So Superman both was and wasn't a member of the original JSA, depending on which iteration you're considering. For the latest iteration, since people remember everything, therapists are going to be in great demand as they try to untangle multiple conflicting memories.

Having avoided everything Death Metal-related (unless it was a freebie), I really don't know what to say beyond . . . DC is doing everything in its power to help me not give a damn any more.

[Will Evans]

Well, in the present-day, having Wonder Woman being much older / definitely more experienced as a costumed superhero than Superman and Batman does throw the "trinity" equality (of sorts) for a loop.

At least before having Diana be an immortal (and being a costumed adventurer eighty+ years earlier), there was a bit more equality among the three in terms of when they first began. That was more of a shared background.

I’d say it was due. Post-crisis Diana was the weak link of the trinity as the least experienced both as just arriving in man’s world and becoming a hero. Even Wonder Girl Donna Troy and the teen Titans were more experienced than her.

[MajorHoy]

I’d say it was due. Post-crisis Diana was the weak link of the trinity as the least experienced both as just arriving in man’s world and becoming a hero. Even Wonder Girl Donna Troy and the teen Titans were more experienced than her.

In the immediate post-CoIE continuity she came on the scene much later than Superman and Batman, but Infinite Crisis retconned that out so she was back to being a founding member of the original Justice League of America, and that meant she had more years of experience again (more on par with Superman and Batman).

[Gero4568]

Superman - No
Batman - No
Robin - No
Wonder Woman - Yes
Green Arrow - Maybe
Aquaman - Maybe

[Digifiend]

I’d say it was due. Post-crisis Diana was the weak link of the trinity as the least experienced both as just arriving in man’s world and becoming a hero. Even Wonder Girl Donna Troy and the teen Titans were more experienced than her.

Yeah, that never made sense - they should've either rebooted Teen Titans as well (thereby also reverting Dick to Robin, as the Bat editors are known to have wanted), or not rebooted Wonder Woman. The reboot broke Donna, and honestly, she's never recovered, her mess of a backstory as a consequence is basically a long running meme.

[Jon Clark]

Yeah, that never made sense - they should've either rebooted Teen Titans as well (thereby also reverting Dick to Robin, as the Bat editors are known to have wanted), or not rebooted Wonder Woman. The reboot broke Donna, and honestly, she's never recovered, her mess of a backstory as a consequence is basically a long running meme.

Or they could have rebooted her the same way they rebooted Superman- or that they rebooted her in Rebirth. Perez gets a mini like Man of Steel set in the past with her series then picking up in the present. They could also have kept her "death" in Crisis #12 stating that the Wonder Woman who'd been part of the JLA origin and who had rescued Donna Troy had been reduced to clay and Wonder Woman #1 was a recreated Diana with no memory of that past life.

Post Death Metal I'd have Diana remember the real meta-history the same way everyone remembers Superman and Batman's 80+ year careers, but in universe I'd restore Wonder Woman to the JSA in much the same way "polly" was Pre-Flashpoint. All the Golden Age stories happened upto a certain point. Then the JSA vanished. Black Canary retires and goes on to have a family. A few others (Hourman, Starman) do the same. And Diana goes back to Paradise Isle for a few decades (maybe working her Mod period in somehow).

[EmeraldGladiator]

No to all except maybe WW depends if based on crowded earth or on it's own earth. If on it's own earth I wouldn't mind any as much because no redundancy but in that case I like the idea of a dead Bruce but on crowded earth no way to all except maybe how they wrote it with JSA WW being Diana's mom or just Diana being older than everyone else like in the movies.

[Dataweaver]

I know they were planning something like this for the new timeline they had planned. That's why the Wonder Woman 80 year special had a story about Diana showing up during WWII, saving FDR, and sparking the Golden Age.

In my own head-canon, this timeline actually did get put in place, by the resolution of Doomsday Clock. Then Death Metal one-upped it with its “everyone remembers the meta-history now”, though it didn't actually change the timeline beyond resetting the state of things to before Batman Who Laughs. So in terms of the Justice Society, the latest iteration of the timeline features Wonder Woman not only as a member, but as a founding member and inspiration for the Society.

This works for me in part because unlike Superman and Batman, Wonder Woman was an active member of the original Justice Society; once she was introduced in All-Star Comics, she appeared in nearly every issue right up to the end. By contrast, I can count the number of stories that had Superman or Batman in them on one hand, and without using all of my fingers to do it; and they were officially described as honorary members. So I have no problem with leaving them out.

In terms of the other suggestions: Green Arrow was never associated with the Justice Society. He was, however, one of the Seven Soldiers of Victory, a fact that got retconned by the Crisis. But I'd leave that to the meta-history, and say that in the latest iteration of the timeline he first appeared in Generation 2, with the Generation 1 Seven Soldiers featuring the Spider instead of Green Arrow the way post-Crisis did. I'd handle Aquaman in a similar way: his existence in the Golden Age is part of the meta-history but not the latest iteration, where he first appeared in Generation 2 as one of the founders of the Justice League.

Robin was only ever a member of the Justice Society on Earth 2, after it split off from the Metaverse. He can be part of the Earth 2 version of the Justice Society; but he shouldn't be part of the main Earth's Justice Society.