Justice Society - with or without these characters?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

But let's go back to the ORIGINAL POST (which WonderScott had quoted when I replied):And WonderScott said:So why do you keep bringing up all these other things that have nothing to do with the Golden Age/Pre-COIE Earth-Two version of Dick Grayson?

I don't expect them to keep to the original Earth 2 setup. They are gonna change it in the future as they've done already. I'm just exploring the options.

[MajorHoy]

I don't expect them to keep to the original Earth 2 setup. They are gonna change it in the future as they've done already. I'm just exploring the options.

But that has nothing to do with the point of this thread / the comments I made / what I replied to . . .

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Ours was a seperate tangent I lost track of.

[MajorHoy]

. . . And since then, DC had reworked Diana into being present in the 1940s for 5G and seems to be sticking with it.

Geoff Johns has also gone and introduced a "Golden Age Aquaman", so who knows where that may lead?

Still wondering if/when he may show up in Johns' Justice Society of America at some point...

[clonegeek]

Still wondering if/when he may show up in Johns' Justice Society of America at some point...

I'm curious if Zatanna would work on the JSA

[marhawkman]

I'm curious if Zatanna would work on the JSA

Well, if we're going with a JSA that's the JLA before the real JLA.... not really. Or maybe just have an ancestor. Technically a different character.

[Jon Clark]

Well, if we're going with a JSA that's the JLA before the real JLA.... not really. Or maybe just have an ancestor. Technically a different character.

Well, Zatara wasn't a JSAer and not sure how he fits into the Golden Age since Crisis, but originally he was a contemporary of the JSA and member of the All-Star Squadron. So Johns could tie in Zatanna if he wanted.

[Dataweaver]

Well, we do have a Justice Society Dark retconned into the New Golden Age history; and Zatara has been confirmed on its roster.

[Digifiend]

Maybe both Giovanni and Zatanna Zatara know a spell which allows them to slow or completely prevent their aging? We know Zatanna is about Bruce Wayne's age, which should be early 40s by now.

[MajorHoy]

I'm curious if Zatanna would work on the JSA

What is your hangup with Zatanna joining the Justice Society?

I'm surprised that nobody tried to put Zatanna on the JSA

She wasn't a Golden Age era hero, and she's already been a member of the Justice League of America and the Justice League Dark. There's no good reason to also have her join the Justice Society of America, who already has a magic user on the roster.

[Jim Kelly]

About Zatara--I had to go through this whole thread to make sure I hadn't made this point before and I don't think I did, although I might have danced around it--

Zatara was on Earth-One before Roy Thomas retconned him to being from Earth-Two and having travelled to Earth-One. I'd prefer to ignore all those Roy Thomas retcons and assume that the father Zatanna was searching for had always existed on Earth-One. Not that it matters now, but I dislike how much travelling between the Earths that Roy Thomas established. It's one thing for a few characters to have gone from one Earth to the other and it's okay for there to be annual team-ups between the Earths, but so many characters all going from one Earth to the other and setting up residence on that Earth is just a lot to swallow.

[marhawkman]

About Zatara--I had to go through this whole thread to make sure I hadn't made this point before and I don't think I did, although I might have danced around it--

Zatara was on Earth-One before Roy Thomas retconned him to being from Earth-Two and having travelled to Earth-One. I'd prefer to ignore all those Roy Thomas retcons and assume that the father Zatanna was searching for had always existed on Earth-One. Not that it matters now, but I dislike how much travelling between the Earths that Roy Thomas established. It's one thing for a few characters to have gone from one Earth to the other and it's okay for there to be annual team-ups between the Earths, but so many characters all going from one Earth to the other and setting up residence on that Earth is just a lot to swallow.

Yeah, it's just... lore breaking when you have an alt-U character just... live here... and not go home. what is their home like without them?

[Dataweaver]

Roy Thomas wanted to put every Golden Age character on Earth Two, regardless of which Earth they had previously been assigned to. Sometimes Editorial or their foot down and said no (Captain Marvel, Plastic Man I think); other times they allowed it (the Freedom Fighters were retconned as originally being from Earth Two; and Zatara was retconned to being from Earth Two I think).

That said, the current dilemma is similar to the immediately post-Crisis issue, where there effectively is no Earth Two, and everyone needs to be fit into a single world's timeline. (There is an Earth Two; but it's the DCU Rebirth version, and bears almost no connection to Golden Age heroes.) So “which Earth did Zatara come from?” is largely a moot point, being supplanted by “which era did he come from?” and, if that era is more than one generation from the present, “how does he have a daughter who is Batman's age?”

My pet theory about 20th century heroes being transported en mass from 1985 to however long ago the First Crisis happened for the Justice League, doesn't work for Zatara/Zatanna or for the Black Canaries, or for Red Tornado. Because, in each of these cases, there was some sort of pre-Crisis transfers between Earths One and Two. That translates to some sort of temporal shift in the current “shared timeline” arrangement; and in each case, the original pre-Crisis explanation can be adapted to explain the current situation, though with varying degrees of effectiveness: both Dinah Drake and Zatara need to be relocated from their last appearance in the Golden Age/on Earth Two to a point far enough back from Superman's debut that their daughters have time to grow up and be roughly the same age as Superman's generation.

[MajorHoy]

I just hope when Huntress and Per Degaton are done bouncing around in time that SOMEBODY will clarify on the printed page what the current state of the JSA's history is these days.

I suspect that, other than treating Helena's backstory as “a possible future”, this Per Degaton storyline is establishing the new JSA timeline. I question some of the specific decisions made, such as placing Batman: Year One 13 years ago or placing Helena's birth so close to the present; but those are minor issues that I can mentally retcon without the story or its effects substantively changing (just push everything out four years each way).

Well, the Per Degaton story may be over, but I still don't have any further clarification.

But then again, that story ending came out at the beginning of August, and we've only had one issue published since then.

[Riv86672]

When it comes to the Justice Society of America, do you prefer them with or without the following characters (all Golden Age/Pre-COIE Earth-Two versions)?

1. Superman
2. Wonder Woman
3. Batman
4. Robin
5. Aquaman
6. Green Arrow

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

^^^Without. Esp. The Trinity.
It gives the other JSAers a chance to shine. Best thing that ever happened to the team in terms of dynamics was retconning The Trinity out of its line up.