Justice Society - with or without these characters?

[Robotman]

It depends on what earth we’re talking about. If it’s classic Earth 2 then I definitely would like to see them on the Justice Society roster. If it’s Earth 0/clutter earth then no, they should be on different teams.

[MajorHoy]

From my experience the roster don't really matter as much as the creative people on the book.

Actually, I think it's a combination.

A fantastic writer and artist trying to pass-off, say, a team consisting of Crimson Avenger, Ibis the Invincible, Jessica Cruz, Max Mercury, Nubia, the original Red Tornado, and Vartox and pretending they're the "Justice Society of America" might not get my support, either.

[Jon Clark]

Actually, I think it's a combination.

A fantastic writer and artist trying to pass-off, say, a team consisting of Crimson Avenger, Ibis the Invincible, Jessica Cruz, Max Mercury, Nubia, the original Red Tornado, and Vartox and pretending they're the "Justice Society of America" might not get my support, either.

Or you can get a creative team that hit it out of the park on several previous books but either have less passion for the characters or just don't have the right touch. Or how many attempts to get a 2nd shot at "lightning in a bottle" have gone south (Waid on Flash, Levitz on LSH, ...)

[Lee Stone]

From what I've come across (which may be stuff added after the Silver Age retroactively) the main difference was that Earth-One Aquaman was naturally a water-breather desended from a still existing Atlantis, his Earth-Two counterpart was the son of normal humans whse father found a long-dead Atlantean civilization and used it's science to make his son a water breather. My guess would be that outside of the origin issue there would be nothing that really made the Golden Age Aquaman recognizably different in-any of the published stories. But someone like Roy Thomas could have built on what was there to make him somewhat distinct.

And I think the origin tale again is the only difference between the Green Arrows. Earth-One has the familiar castaway origin and met Speedy later. Earth-Two has Oliver Queen pursuing archeological thieves who he defeats with Roy's help in the mountains as the first Green Arrow adventure. There was something with the hair colors (Speedy on Earth-Two as blond but GA wasn't). But like Aquaman I doubt there were any developments that would make a reprinted golden age story incompatible with the familiar Earth-One/Prime-Earth Ollie.

I've also read that the 1st appearance of Topo in Adventure #229 is a commonly determined starting point for Earth-1 Aquaman, as Topo made no Golden Age appearances and becomes an important supporting character for Aquaman in the Silver Age.

[Cat]

Absolutely without. No exceptions.

[BatmanJones]

I actually came to enjoy the early Robinson Earth 2 series and Levitz's Worlds' Finest books, though not as "replacements" for the original Golden Age JSA and its later expansions. Judging the New52 Earth 2-related titles as separate from the previous JSA-related history, it was more like an Elseworlds alternate reality. But it eventually got so doom-and-gloom heavy, it made the typical Batman plot seem more like My Little Pony.

Good to know. I might not mind the doom and gloom as much as you do. Different strokes and won't know until I get to it, of course. But good to know you enjoyed it. That makes me want to press forward. I just got to Vol. 3 of the first series (Robinson). I read a little of Worlds' Finest because I love Helena Wayne, I love Kevin Maguire, I love George Perez, and I have a lot of fondness still for all the great older stuff Levitz wrote. I'm quite fond of Power Girl too but since she'd been Supergirl and was just a different character (as was Helena) I couldn't see her as the character I wanted to read about and the same was true of Huntress/Robin but that's not a reason to drop it. As I type that I can't for the life of me remember why I dropped it.

Regardless, I was on the fence as to whether to continue with it, so thanks for the nudge.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

From my experience the roster don't really matter as much as the creative people on the book.

Pretty much this. I don't really care if it's the classic JSA on Earth-2 or the trinity-less JSA of the Post-Crisis era, I just want a good JSA comic featuring those characters, not revamped incarnations that bear little to no relation to them aside from their names.

I was lukewarm towards the Levitz and Thomas JSA. I loved the Mike Parobeck JSA and I loved the Johns JSA. I hated the Sturges JSA.

The creative team matters more than the roster.

[Trey Strain]

From my experience the roster don't really matter as much as the creative people on the book.

It can't be about the creative team because creative teams come and go. That's short-term thinking, and you have to think long-term. It's got to be about the concept. And in a team title, the characters are the essence of the concept.

Justice League B titles reliably fail because the characters are unpopular. The same will apply to a Justice Society title.

Someone might be thinking, "If they put my favorite creative team on it, and they manage to stretch it out for 40 issues with poor sales, it'll be a success."

No, it won't be. This is a Justice Society comic we're talking about here. Not a Lobo comic. It can and should stay in print permanently.

[Factor]

If it has to be set on the same earth as the main continuity, then a solid "NO" to all of them.

If the JSA is on earth-2, or we're dealing with some other alternative reality, then a big fat yes to the Trinity, a "no, he can join Infinity later on" for Robin, and a solid "Don't care either way" for Arrow and Orin.

Exactly this. I'm still hoping they go the Earth-2 route, but play it classic this time. Yes, I know it isn't happening.

[MajorHoy]

I was lukewarm towards the Levitz and Thomas JSA.

Which run was the "Thomas JSA"?

He never really wrote a regular series that focused specifically on the JSA, aside from specials and the America vs. the Justice Society of America mini-series, did he?

[Jim Kelly]

The inclusion of Superman, Batman and Robin is not that important to the classic Justice Society—neither is Wildcat, Mr. Terrific and Red Tornado—but Wonder Woman is vital to the original JSA, just as much as Black Canary, Flash and Johnny Thunder.

Is it any accident that the James Robinson revival of the JSA (in the late 1990s) got into high gear when John Byrne retconned Polly as the WW of WW II? That made it possible for Robinson, Goyer and Johns to harvest the classic adventures without too many adjustments.

I know there’s a faction that hates that, but I loved it. Of course, there ain’t nothing like the real thing, baby—and ideally (like in the movie and the TV show), Diana ought to have been around back then.

The problem for all the JSA is time—unless they live on board a time-ship or on an island made from the Rock of Eternity. Putting Dinah Drake in the JSA is problematic if her daughter is modern day Dinah Lance. That’s why Earth-Two is the preferred option for me. But Wonder Woman is not such a problem, because she’s an immortal Amazon (even a goddess) and she comes from an island outside normal time.

Even without the JSA, I want Diana to have been in the Second World War. But why did they make a Multiverse if they weren’t going to use it for this exact purpose?

[CaptCleghorn]

It can't be about the creative team because creative teams come and go. That's short-term thinking, and you have to think long-term. It's got to be about the concept. And in a team title, the characters are the essence of the concept.

Justice League B titles reliably fail because the characters are unpopular. The same will apply to a Justice Society title.

Someone might be thinking, "If they put my favorite creative team on it, and they manage to stretch it out for 40 issues with poor sales, it'll be a success."

No, it won't be. This is a Justice Society comic we're talking about here. Not a Lobo comic. It can and should stay in print permanently.

This is a rare occurrence where Trey and I agree. This is a point in time when the JSA needs to be implemented and its linking to both the original WW2 past and the present day is important as the story will be necessary to account for the characters being alive and reasonably active now. Johnny Thunder turns 101 in July. Where Ian Karkull was something we could go with for a while, characters on the farthest end of actuarial tables need more.

The two biggest ideas we've been chatting about are the time jump and placing the JSA on another Earth and doing some sort of "time is different there" state. But whatever is done, it will be what the JSA deals with from here on in. And there are multiple ways to handle all of these. They're superhero comics for crying out loud.

[SiegePerilous02]

Even without the JSA, I want Diana to have been in the Second World War. But why did they make a Multiverse if they weren’t going to use it for this exact purpose?

Because it was apparently too confusing. Though I can't imagine how it could be more confusing than what followed.

[The Darknight Detective]

Because it was apparently too confusing. Though I can't imagine how it could be more confusing than what followed.

The "Multiverse is confusing" viewpoint just makes me shake my head.

[SiegePerilous02]

The "Multiverse is confusing" viewpoint just makes me shake my head.

Aren't multiverses kind of a Sci-Fi staple? Shouldn't nerds be able to keep track of this fairly easily?

Meanwhile...Dragon Ball has a multiverse now, and no one seems confused by it.