The end of Original Five?! Extermination - August 2018

[wano]

Wonder if sending teen Cyclops back would bring back Cyclops, or teen Cyclops is the one remaining until his older self is back... SO they either side line him or give him increased prominence even tough there's NO FUCKING WAY he'll replace his older self, then again X leaders have gotten younger through the years -.- Xavier/Magneto, Storm/Cyke, Kitty, ... Maybe teen cyke lends up leading the X-men as a figurehead since nobody wants to bother to fully commit to leadership of the X-men (Because they would get the blame for everything)

[Tycon]

You guys gotta understand two things:

(1) These guys are a packaged deal. Either they all are gonna make it, or they are all gonna die. There is no determining who out of the five should stay because such-and-such is still dead or who should die because such-and-such is still alive.

(2) These guys ARE the real deal. There have been misdirections, soft reboots, etc etc but they are the same 616 that Lee/Kirby went to town on. Soooooooo idk about y'all but I want to see them go back safely.

And.........does this read like Battle of the Atom 2.0 to anybody else?? I mean I absolutely trust Brisson and Larraz & I'm picking this up but. . .

[Havok83]

X-men leaders havent really gotten younger. Kitty is the same age Kurt was when he first became leader and Scott of course was younger than her when he first led

[wano]

You guys gotta understand two things:

(1) These guys are a packaged deal. Either they all are gonna make it, or they are all gonna die. There is no determining who out of the five should stay because such-and-such is still dead or who should die because such-and-such is still alive.

(2) These guys ARE the real deal. There have been misdirections, soft reboots, etc etc but they are the same 616 that Lee/Kirby went to town on. Soooooooo idk about y'all but I want to see them go back safely.

And.........does this read like Battle of the Atom 2.0 to anybody else?? I mean I absolutely trust Brisson and Larraz & I'm picking this up but. . .

At least two of them had solo series, even if they crashed they're pretty ok... Also at least Cyclops managed to move away from X-men altogether in champions so he can always have a place, or lead the next teen X book so it doesn't crash and burn like Gen X. . .

X-men leaders havent really gotten younger. Kitty is the same age Kurt was when he first became leader and Scott of course was younger than her when he first led

Teen Scott leading was just an extension of Xavier's will, he got to properly lead the X-men when he got older and then defected the leadership to storm... Also if kitty is the same age as kurt when he joined it means kitty is barely 20 and leading the X men.... As I've said... leaders have gotten younger... I wouldn't mind baby cyclops leading the X-men tough

[Havok83]

Teen Scott leading was just an extension of Xavier's will, he got to properly lead the X-men when he got older and then defected the leadership to storm... Also if kitty is the same age as kurt when he joined it means kitty is barely 20 and leading the X men.... As I've said... leaders have gotten younger... I wouldn't mind baby cyclops leading the X-men tough

Xavier was killed off in the O5 days. Scott was like 20 when that happened. Kurt was early 20s when he led as is Kitty currently. The leaders havent really gotten younger. Its fluctuated and Kitty is about the same age as other leaders before her.

[wano]

Xavier was killed off in the O5 days. Scott was like 20 when that happened. Kurt was early 20s when he led as is Kitty currently. The leaders havent really gotten younger. Its fluctuated and Kitty is about the same age as other leaders before her.

As I've said earlier, in the O5 days Scott was just an extension of Xavier's will, not a proper leader, and the X-men were just a small super hero gang not the organization they're now. Cyclops was leading in the 80's properly, then storm through the 90's, then Cyclops again, then storm (All of them had to be in their mid 20's and gotten progresively older thorugh the their 30's), and finally a very young kitty, Marc guggenheim commented that kitty should be 20's early 20's in one of the interviews about the wedding... Then again I don't see the problem with leaders getting younger, it seems like a trend although as they get more younger their authority dwindles (kitty only leads one proper team, can't even get Logan or the O5 to follow her lead)

[Tycon]

At least two of them had solo series, even if they crashed they're pretty ok... Also at least Cyclops managed to move away from X-men altogether in champions so he can always have a place, or lead the next teen X book so it doesn't crash and burn like Gen X. . .

I wasn't referring to their overall status in the MU and how popular they've gotten. But in their predicament, they all have to return to the past together, unchanged as if they never left. They can't have 3 of the O5 come back, or 2 of them, it has to be all 5.

[Havok83]

As I've said earlier, in the O5 days Scott was just an extension of Xavier's will, not a proper leader, and the X-men were just a small super hero gang not the organization they're now. Cyclops was leading in the 80's properly, then storm through the 90's, then Cyclops again, then storm (All of them had to be in their mid 20's and gotten progresively older thorugh the their 30's), and finally a very young kitty, Marc guggenheim commented that kitty should be 20's early 20's in one of the interviews about the wedding... Then again I don't see the problem with leaders getting younger, it seems like a trend although as they get more younger their authority dwindles (kitty only leads one proper team, can't even get Logan or the O5 to follow her lead)

The X-men werent any bigger in the 80s when Cyclops led than they were in the 60s. Why discredit his stint then? They didnt blow up into a larger organization until the 90s. Besides you just going to ignore Kurt, Rogue's first stint, Cannonball, Moonstar, all early 20s X-men leaders

[wano]

I wasn't referring to their overall status in the MU and how popular they've gotten. But in their predicament, they all have to return to the past together, unchanged as if they never left. They can't have 3 of the O5 come back, or 2 of them, it has to be all 5.

Actually due to the nature of time. . . let's say all the O5 minus Tyke return to point A in time, Tyke can stay for a while (10 marvel years that probably amount to a month or two) and then return to point A with no effects in the timeline whatsoever , don't underestimate the wonders of time travel

[wano]

The X-men werent any bigger in the 80s when Cyclops led than they were in the 60s. Why discredit his stint then? They didnt blow up into a larger organization until the 90s. Besides you just going to ignore Kurt, Rogue's first stint, Cannonball, Moonstar, all early 20s X-men leaders

The X-men were bigger in the 80's,not as huge but bigger nonetheless, I wont discredit teen cyke stint but I'll say the X-men were smaller in the 60's and Cyclops was enforcing Xavier's will and dream, not an ideology of his own, although the desire to be a hero and help others was his own. Kurt and Rogue stint were just stints, they deflected to storm eventually because she's the most capable (due to Cyclops absence) , and cannonball and moonstar were leading the new mutants (and at one point magneto was their director)...

I'm referring to the overall X-men leader, not leaders of small teams

[Havok83]

The X-men were bigger in the 80's,not as huge but bigger nonetheless, I wont discredit teen cyke stint but I'll say the X-men were smaller in the 60's and Cyclops was enforcing Xavier's will and dream, not an ideology of his own, although the desire to be a hero and help others was his own. Kurt and Rogue stint were just stints, they deflected to storm eventually because she's the most capable (due to Cyclops absence) , and cannonball and moonstar were leading the new mutants (and at one point magneto was their director)...

I'm referring to the overall X-men leader, not leaders of small teams

Cyclops led a team of 5-7 members in the 60s (Jean, Angel, Iceman, Beast, Havok, Lorna). He led about the same in the 70s (Wolverine, Colossus, Storm, Nightcrawler, Banshee, Phoenix). The X-men didnt blow up until they added a second team in the 90s. It was always kept relatively small before then. Scott always enforced Xavier's ideology and by your logic, he didnt stand on his own as leader until more recently post M-Day

Kurt and Rogue didnt deflect to Storm. Kurt became leader when Storm quit and Rogue led Claremont's Revolution team that Storm wasnt even apart of. Cannonball and Moonstar both led an X-men team during the Utopia era

[wano]

Actually if you bothered to read X factor you'd realize Cyclops and the rest of the O5 admitted that Xavier made mistakes such as hiding them form the rest of the people, and they decided to strike on their own as X factor as form bonds with the human community instead of staying in the dark. During X factor they had their own way of doing things and a new philosophy in their relationship with humankind as whole, their views on Xavier (they saw his flaws as a mentor, but respected him nonetheless) and the fact that they weren't in the dark

Also I'm referring to having an overall X-men leader not a leader of small teams. . .

As for Storm, she lead the X-men in the outback era and lead the gold team during the 90's and when gold and blue reunited she lead alongside Cyclops

[Hizashi]

Actually due to the nature of time. . . let's say all the O5 minus Tyke return to point A in time, Tyke can stay for a while (10 marvel years that probably amount to a month or two) and then return to point A with no effects in the timeline whatsoever , don't underestimate the wonders of time travel

I was just about to say something to this effect but you beat me to the punch. Marvel has already shown they’ll do whatever they want, even if I don’t necessarily want the O5 around. As long as they aren’t used to retcon Cyclops away, I don’t particularly care what happens to them.

[Havok83]

Actually if you bothered to read X factor you'd realize Cyclops and the rest of the O5 admitted that Xavier made mistakes such as hiding them form the rest of the people, and they decided to strike on their own as X factor as form bonds with the human community instead of staying in the dark. During X factor they had their own way of doing things and a new philosophy in their relationship with humankind as whole, their views on Xavier (they saw his flaws as a mentor, but respected him nonetheless) and the fact that they weren't in the dark

Also I'm referring to having an overall X-men leader not a leader of small teams. . .

As for Storm, she lead the X-men in the outback era and lead the gold team during the 90's and when gold and blue reunited she lead alongside Cyclops

We were talking about X-men, not X-Factor. I did bother to read it, thank you. They didnt strike on their own to form bonds with human kind. X-Factor was created as an extension of Xavier's dream. Jean pushed for it bc she didnt trust the X-men following them taking Magneto in. X-factor was created to find young mutants and train them in public just as Xavier had done with them before. That was core to X-Factor's concept as it was created. They didnt open up until later in the run when they were celebrated as heroes in Fall of the Mutants. Regardless this is irrelevant to your point since you reiterate that you are talking about X-men leader, not a smaller team

[King_Thor13]

https://news.marvel.com/comics/88824...te-the-future/

Interesting. So Pt.2 will be in this weeks X-Men Blue, hopefully giving some more answers as to exactly what's going on. I'm not a big fan of the time travel mess, but I look forward to the O5 dilemma being resolved, assuming this is what the story centers on. I'm gonna laugh if this is just another result of the O5 not returning to their timeline.

Even I'm curious with how the X-men will revert the O5 back to their old selves and even when the whole event is over...How will it change the ADULT O5?

Yeah there's a lot to deal with. A memory wipe is one thing, but Beast has played with magic and 2099 tech, Angel still has Black Vortex wings and Iceman + Jean both have had big powerups. Purging all of this is quite the challenge. Maybe they're gonna have to turn back time so that the O5 never left to begin with? Though that would impact the memories of everyone else right? Otherwise maybe Elixir will 'cure' them of their changes and essentially reset their bodies or something? I don't think the changes on the timeline will be anything too big. Some seem to think this will bring about the return of Cyclops but I'm uncertain that'll come to fruition.

I don't think they are going back. Somebody asked Cullen Bunn about more of magneto's time machine and this was his answer so It seems that he still has plans for them.
http://cullenbunn.tumblr.com/post/17...-machine-again

their return could have nothing to do with extermination.

You guys gotta understand two things:

(1) These guys are a packaged deal. Either they all are gonna make it, or they are all gonna die. There is no determining who out of the five should stay because such-and-such is still dead or who should die because such-and-such is still alive.

(2) These guys ARE the real deal. There have been misdirections, soft reboots, etc etc but they are the same 616 that Lee/Kirby went to town on. Soooooooo idk about y'all but I want to see them go back safely.

And.........does this read like Battle of the Atom 2.0 to anybody else?? I mean I absolutely trust Brisson and Larraz & I'm picking this up but. . .

We know their time here is limited. If not Extermination, then Bunn will have to wrap their story before Blue inevitably ends I think, which may account for why Magneto still has that time machine sitting there. I do wonder what will be done with Jimmy + Bloodstorm once Blue wraps. Nobody really cares for the former but Bloodstorm is badass (EXILES?)

I agree that they're either all going back or none of them are. This was addressed way back when Angel wanted to go home and the others didn't. And if they kill them off (which I doubt will happen) then it would mean the entirety of the X-Mens history would be altered, and a time paradox would occur.

Definetly getting Battle of the Atom Vol 2 vibes, which was an okayish story I guess but didn't really do much for the characters involved.