Diane Nelson and the DC comics staff meeting...

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

except that's not the agenda on the front end. that's something that might end up panning out while people are just trying to create stellar comics.

maybe for DC. not for those others

[scusemeprincess]

maybe for DC. not for those others

no, especially for those others. the record is there to prove it.

[nightw1ng]

From a business standpoint, corporate synergy makes perfect sense. Movies/TV fans number in the millions while comics fans are in the thousands. That is a huge disparity. If you want to increase revenue in your comics division, you're going to appeal to the movies/TV fans to reach a broader audience. Yes, it does limit stories somewhat, but in theory, with the right creative team, it can work well. Obviously, in practice, it doesn't always work out, but since comics aren't big money earners, I imagine corporate execs don't mind taking the risk.

[Lee Stone]

From a business standpoint, corporate synergy makes perfect sense. Movies/TV fans number in the millions while comics fans are in the thousands. That is a huge disparity. If you want to increase revenue in your comics division, you're going to appeal to the movies/TV fans to reach a broader audience. Yes, it does limit stories somewhat, but in theory, with the right creative team, it can work well. Obviously, in practice, it doesn't always work out, but since comics aren't big money earners, I imagine corporate execs don't mind taking the risk.

Exactly.

For established DC readers, Geoff Johns and Jim Lee could do comics about sliced cheese. And it would be the #1 comic.
No one really cares who's in it, as long as the quality is good.
And that's just the comic buying public.

So then, if you put Geoff Johns and Jim Lee on a comic that targets tv/movie-goers, featuring an interpretation familiar to them (say Arrow or Smallville), you just quadrupled your audience.
And your sales.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

sorry again, mod. some ppl, amirite...?

no, especially for those others. the record is there to prove it.

what record? Marvel planned the entire Avenger movie line in 2005 - 3 years before the IM movie, and that was also the time they began putting the Avengers at the forefront of the Marvel U:

Avengers Disassembled - 2004
House of M - 2005
Civil War - 2006–7
World War Hulk - 2007
Secret Invasion - 2008

Joey Q has said himself it was a long-term vision (once they realized they wont get the X-Men movie rights from Fox) to develop the Avengers line as the marquee line in anticipation for the movies. It's one of the very few things I respect about Joey Q.

And you think it's really just a coincidence they put Bendis and McNiven on Guardians of the Galaxy right after they announced the movie was in development? Please.

edit:
that'll be my last post about it. if you want to discuss it more, you can PM me. But the proof is in the pudding, princess!

[TOXIC]

It seems I stepped into a Marvel thread.

[The Darknight Detective]

It seems I stepped into a Marvel thread.

No more Marvel posts from this point on, guys. I will start deleting them, so don't waste your time typing them.

[skyvolt2000]

Which has worked precisely zero times in the past.

The reason why it has been a battle for DC versus others is AVAILABILITY.

Walking Dead, Regular Show, Adventure Time & My Little Pony
Tv show
Comics (found in LCS)
Trades (Found EVERYWHERE including used book stores) (They come out and they automatically get ordered)
Public library (available to everyone)

So anyone curious about that product has 4 options to discover it.

Now excluding Superman & Batman-who else in DC fits that?

Young Justice?
Tv show
comics (hard to find)
Trades (see above)
Public Library-popped up AFTER the show got axed

Static Shock lets not go there
Green Lantern Adventures never got a chance
Beware The Batman see above

Now what is Arrow's issue?
Tv show no
Comic I've yet to see that book in a store
trades are there any and will a store stock them?

So even if you get folks interested in Arrow via the show-there isn't much to get them interested in a book.

So if you want it to work for Arrow or Gotham or Teen Titans Go!-you HAVE to make sure those trades are not only in LCS but Wal-Mart and other places like the 4 I mentioned earlier.

[Carabas]

The reason why it has been a battle for DC versus others is AVAILABILITY.

Oh, I know, and have been known to go on about that every now and again.

When they lost mass-market distribution in the 90's, that was pretty much it for comics in America. I mean, I'm from Belgium, and we have books that can match or even beat the best Marvel and DC have to offer in total units sold.

[Lee Stone]

Oh, I know, and have been known to go on about that every now and again.

When they lost mass-market distribution in the 90's, that was pretty much it for comics in America. I mean, I'm from Belgium, and we have books that can match or even beat the best Marvel and DC have to offer in total units sold.

It seems that the lure of non-returnability trumped availability.

So instead of having each issue available for a limited amount of time to millions of people, they shifted to having each issue available indefinitely to a few thousand.
Then add in that sales are based on pre-orders now, which is more what the shops think will sell as opposed to what people will want to read.

For instance, during the mass market era sales were determined by what sold to the end-user. Non-sold copies were returned to the publisher.
With the current system, sales are determined by what shops order to stock their shelves.

Which means shops could order 2000 copies of Justice League United and 1800 copies of Teen Titans, sell 1400 copies of JLU and 1500 copies of Teen Titans but JLU would still be listed as a bigger seller because it's based on the initial orders, not end-user sales.

[scusemeprincess]

No more Marvel posts from this point on, guys. I will start deleting them, so don't waste your time typing them.

none of these posts are about marvel, they are about companies synergizing films/tv with the comics, and DC's role in the future in this situation.

[Carabas]

It seems that the lure of non-returnability trumped availability.

Not really, that came later, when Diamondgot in.

This was not something the companies decided was a good idea, this was something forced onto them by mass-market retailers no longer wanting to carry comics on account of there not being any money in them, even if they sell by the bucketload. Prices were too low, the profit margin was too tiny.

[Lee Stone]

Not really, that came later, when Diamondgot in.

This was not something the companies decided was a good idea, this was something forced onto them by mass-market retailers no longer wanting to carry comics on account of there not being any money in them, even if they sell by the bucketload. Prices were too low, the profit margin was too tiny.

True.
And true.

However... you would think that now, with prices of $4-5 per issue (comparable to most magazines) things could revert back.

[PretenderNX01]

Nothing new, black Aqualad was created for Young Justice and Teen Titans picked up on that too (pre new 52) and black Wally West is part of the Flash TV series and is in the new Flash comics.

Sames as company-who-shall-not-be-mentioned had a black you-know-who in the alternate universe who became a hit in the movies played by Sam Jackson and then a black version was introduced into their mainstream universe.

[Carabas]

However... you would think that now, with prices of $4-5 per issue (comparable to most magazines) things could revert back.

Two decades in an echo chamber, appealing to only the most hardcore of fans has changed Big Two comics. They're no longer something that can appeal to a mainstream audience. Modern line-wide 50+ issue events alone will keep anybody, well, sane, from getting into comics, or at least from staying in them for very long.

It's too little too late. If comics would have costed $3-4 books 20 years ago, and had a page count to match, that would have made a big difference, I think. Instead Marvel and DC had been going the other way for decades, keeping their cover prices in the kiddie-friendly level at the cost of drastically cutting content and having crap physical quality.