Insomniac's Spider-Man for PS4 releases on September 7th

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Until 2008, with Weisman's Spectacular Spider-Man, every Spider-Man cartoon, no exceptions, featured Peter at college. Most of these adaptations didn't touch on origins at all. Stuff like Spider-Man and the Amazing Friends featured Firestar and Iceman as major allies. The so-called nucleus hasn't always been one thing all the time. Likewise, Spider-Man games didn't deal with the origins either for most part.

The skeleton of Weisman’s Peter and the Peter from TAS is the same even if we saw the latter start out in college. That has more to do with what point in the character’s life the writer wants to introduce the audience at. It doesn’t mean the things I mentioned (Peter being orphaned, getting bit in high school, losing Uncle Ben, etc.) didn’t happen. Lots of writers jump straight to Nightwing when covering Dick Grayson, but that doesn’t mean his backstory and his years as Robin aren’t there.

That's a good point.

But I also think that we need to consider the situation and how different it is when Spider-Man was introduced and when Miles was introduced.

When Spider-Man appeared in AF#15, it was popular as a single issue and people read it but culturally it didn't make a dent at the time. If not for the launch of TASM as an ongoing months later, people would likely have forgotten about it. At best Spider-Man would have been harvested for world-building the way Al Ewing uses Timely Era stuff. Whereas before Ultimate Fallout #4 hit the stands, Miles Morales was given a big press blitz, the night before the New York Times ran a profile announcing his debut and that got picked up by the online ecosystem.

So in a sense Miles was created as an icon first and a character second. If there had not been no issue other than AF#15 that issue at least tells you a lot about Peter Parker and Spider-Man, but Miles' first appearance in Ultimate Fallout #4 gives us no mention of his name or his origins (something which Bendis would devote a long mini to tackle), and only at the end of that did Miles get his costume.

Don't know what the point is trying to cater to that crowd.

Being created as an icon and character aren’t mutually exclusive. I already brought up Kamala as an example, but a lot of Peter’s initial appeal was about representation too. In Peter’s case it was representation of young people and skinny men. The “young people” part is obvious (first independent teen superhero, first to not be a teen caricature, etc.). What I mean by the second part is that there weren’t many male superheroes that didn’t look like traditional masculine looks prior to Spider-Man. Peter in a way was proof that all men can be superheroes and not just a select minority of men that lift weights and are very athletic. A lot of the initial appeal of AF # 15 boils down to those two demographics finally feeling positively represented (That’s right, Peter is technically what the Alt-Right would call a “PC Character” . We just don’t think of him that way now because of how normalized people like him have become. We have real-life icons like James Dean to thank for this, but also fictional ones like Peter himself.)

You are right that Peter wouldn’t have had as big of a cultural impact had it not been for TASM, but I think that has more to do with social media and how fast information travels now. Also superheroes (Spider-Man especially) are a lot more engrained in our culture now to the point that The New York Times will write consistent articles on them.

The question then is why Miles has varied so significantly compared to other Marvel characters. I think it has to do with a lack of a clear vision behind Miles when he was conceived. With characters like Peter Parker and Kamala Khan, a lot of their struggles in their initial runs were based on their creators’ experiences growing up. Bendis was well-intentioned, and his overall run on Miles isn’t bad, but it was lacking that authenticity and personal connection to the character that the Lee/Ditko Spidey and Amanat/Wilson Ms. Marvel have.

So we were left with a Miles that was, to a huge extent, a blank canvas that people didn’t know what to do with. This became especially true after he started co-existing with Peter in 616, which meant that being the guy who took over from Peter wasn’t enough. Most writers at Marvel apparently didn’t even know what his new 616 origin was or if he still had memories from the Ultimate Universe. The comics are only getting around to addressing that now.

The impression I get is that ITSV was the turning point for Miles, and that everyone else is now stuck doing cleanup when they would rather just import the movie version into the mainstream as if it were Bruce Timm’s Mister Freeze. In this case however, it isn’t as easy to do that. Both the Miles in 616 and Insomniac’s game have a previous continuity that has to be addressed. For example, Saladin Ahmed’s Miles is closer to his movie version, but the book is also trying to clear up the continuity issues from Bendis. Insomniac’s Miles already looks less nerdy in the trailer than he did in the first game, but it remains to be seen to what extent they can do a 180.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I already brought up Kamala as an example, but a lot of Peter’s initial appeal was about representation too. In Peter’s case it was representation of young people and skinny men. The “young people” part is obvious (first independent teen superhero, first to not be a teen caricature, etc.). What I mean by the second part is that there weren’t many male superheroes that didn’t look like traditional masculine looks prior to Spider-Man. Peter in a way was proof that all men can be superheroes and not just a select minority of men that lift weights and are very athletic. A lot of the initial appeal of AF # 15 boils down to those two demographics finally feeling positively represented (That’s right, Peter is technically what the Alt-Right would call a “PC Character” . We just don’t think of him that way now because of how normalized people like him have become. We have real-life icons like James Dean to thank for this, but also fictional ones like Peter himself.)

I agree with this. At the same, before Spider-Man you had Fawcett's Captain Marvel (now Shazam) who was the biggest superhero, outseling Superman, in the 40s. The Fawcett Marvel comics continued to be big wel into the 50s. Like Captain Marvel Jr./Freddie was a role model and inspiration for Elvis Presley (that whole outfit and hair-style was The King dolling himself to proto-cosplay his hero). So I wouldn't quite say Spider-Man was entirely new.

You are right that Peter wouldn’t have had as big of a cultural impact had it not been for TASM, but I think that has more to do with social media and how fast information travels now. Also superheroes (Spider-Man especially) are a lot more engrained in our culture now to the point that The New York Times will write consistent articles on them.

Since I am in fact That Guy, I have to point out that Stan Lee actually started that tradition of major journalists covering comics. In fact one major profile of Stan Lee and Marvel in the New Yorker magazine (a very prestigious/pretentious journal associated with high taste) directly led to Jack Kirby plotting defection to DC, since the guy who did that profile (or hatchet job if we are being honest) openly insulted and mocked Kirby for being a working stiff. So it wasn't quite unprecedented as it was back then.

But you are right, that things are different now. Spider-Man's comics sales rose steadily and it took a while before he supplanted Fantastic Four to be Marvel's top selling title and the merchandising juggernaut bar none.

The impression I get is that ITSV was the turning point for Miles, and that everyone else is now stuck doing cleanup when they would rather just import the movie version into the mainstream as if it were Bruce Timm’s Mister Freeze. In this case however, it isn’t as easy to do that. Both the Miles in 616 and Insomniac’s game have a previous continuity that has to be addressed. For example, Saladin Ahmed’s Miles is closer to his movie version, but the book is also trying to clear up the continuity issues from Bendis. Insomniac’s Miles already looks less nerdy in the trailer than he did in the first game, but it remains to be seen to what extent they can do a 180.

I think the closer analogue is Iron Man/Tony Stark. Iron Man's character in the comics was extremely different from how it is Post-RDJ. Before he was a fairly serious character, even humorless (around the time of "Extremis") or even Civil War, and the tie-in issues that JMS did with him. He had a thin Errol Flynn style moustache, a fairly dated reference given how few people even remember or know who Flynn is. Since RDJ, he's writte as a kind jokey embarassing uncle type and a genius with a mega-ego when the original Tony Stark was actually a chill and humble guy.

I think eventually Miles will take cues from the ITSV movies to an extent.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Honestly I always saw Miles as being Peter-lite and I don't think Insomniac is gonna be able to shake that. Hell until Miles leaves high school I don't think anyone's gonna shake that but some may get close.

So right now I'm looking for a good take on Miles and maybe a cool new villian to face.

[Hypestyle]

invent some new villains for the game and bring them into the comics. Miles vs everybody from Pete's rogues is going to get tedious.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

invent some new villains for the game and bring them into the comics. Miles vs everybody from Pete's rogues is going to get tedious.

To be fair Peter's got 80 plus villians so there are some gems waiting to be discovered.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

To be fair Peter's got 80 plus villians so there are some gems waiting to be discovered.

To reiterate what I have said, Hobgoblin/Kingsley should be given to Miles Morales as a permanent donation. Hobgoblin can actually be to Miles what he once tried to be to Peter.

[CrimsonEchidna]

To reiterate what I have said, Hobgoblin/Kingsley should be given to Miles Morales as a permanent donation. Hobgoblin can actually be to Miles what he once tried to be to Peter.

There's also some who straight up don't really get used like Hydro-Man and Overdrive (Outside of Foes) who could get some new life breathed into the characters.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

To reiterate what I have said, Hobgoblin/Kingsley should be given to Miles Morales as a permanent donation. Hobgoblin can actually be to Miles what he once tried to be to Peter.

There's also some who straight up don't really get used like Hydro-Man and Overdrive (Outside of Foes) who could get some new life breathed into the characters.

I'm more with CrimsonEchidna on this. Hobgoblin's nice but not niche enough. Heck I don't even think Peter's fought any of the Goblins in the games yet.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I would love to see Starling. We already had Vulture in the first game, so you can easily introduce her.

GG and Doc Ock are probably off the table as they're arguably too Peter-centric (unless it is Ock in Peter's body). Hobgoblin is probably off the table too as they haven't done the Green Goblin yet.

I agree with this. At the same, before Spider-Man you had Fawcett's Captain Marvel (now Shazam) who was the biggest superhero, outseling Superman, in the 40s. The Fawcett Marvel comics continued to be big wel into the 50s. Like Captain Marvel Jr./Freddie was a role model and inspiration for Elvis Presley (that whole outfit and hair-style was The King dolling himself to proto-cosplay his hero). So I wouldn't quite say Spider-Man was entirely new.

There was also skinny Steve Rogers. Even then, I think those two characters are a bit different because they turned into something closer to Superman after they got their powers. Peter actually stayed a kid after becoming Spider-Man (saying this didn't age well but you know what I mean ) and kept his lean-and-agile physique.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I'm more with CrimsonEchidna on this. Hobgoblin's nice but not niche enough. Heck I don't even think Peter's fought any of the Goblins in the games yet.

The Green Goblin (i.e. 616 dude on glider) is a lot rarer in the games that's true. But Spider-Man did fight him in the Activision 2002 game adaptation of the movie (called Spider-man The Movie). It was actually a lot of fun since you swung around chasing a dude on a glider and occassionally you could web up and land on the glider and try and punch Norman off only for him to chuck you off. More famously if you beat the game on one of the difficulty levels, you can actually play as the Green Goblin (i.e. Harry Osborn) and glide around Manhattan and drop bombs and bats.


The supremely dumb Ultimate Goblin version featured in the Ultimate Spider-Man game.

[Frontier]

There's also some who straight up don't really get used like Hydro-Man and Overdrive (Outside of Foes) who could get some new life breathed into the characters.

Yeah, just being completely practical I doubt we're going to see any of Peter's major villains get used unless he's already fought them in the last game. So people probably shouldn't be expecting Mysterio, Lizard, Sandman, or the Goblins.

The Green Goblin (i.e. 616 dude on glider) is a lot rarer in the games that's true. But Spider-Man did fight him in the Activision 2002 game adaptation of the movie (called Spider-man The Movie). It was actually a lot of fun since you swung around chasing a dude on a glider and occassionally you could web up and land on the glider and try and punch Norman off only for him to chuck you off. More famously if you beat the game on one of the difficulty levels, you can actually play as the Green Goblin (i.e. Harry Osborn) and glide around Manhattan and drop bombs and bats.


The supremely dumb Ultimate Goblin version featured in the Ultimate Spider-Man game.

I think he meant within the PS4 games. They teased the Goblin tech in the first game but Norman hasn't suited up yet.

Gobby's been a boss in numerous Spider-Man games.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

The Green Goblin (i.e. 616 dude on glider) is a lot rarer in the games that's true. But Spider-Man did fight him in the Activision 2002 game adaptation of the movie (called Spider-man The Movie). It was actually a lot of fun since you swung around chasing a dude on a glider and occassionally you could web up and land on the glider and try and punch Norman off only for him to chuck you off. More famously if you beat the game on one of the difficulty levels, you can actually play as the Green Goblin (i.e. Harry Osborn) and glide around Manhattan and drop bombs and bats.


The supremely dumb Ultimate Goblin version featured in the Ultimate Spider-Man game.

I meant the Insomniac games.

[lalalei2001]

Insomniac Games is the latest company to respond to sexual harassment allegations. "The response comes less than two hours after former Insomniac Games employee Sol Brennan, who worked there as a technical director between 2016 and 2020, alleged the company treated women poorly and protected three sexual abusers."

[WebSlingWonder]

Insomniac Games is the latest company to respond to sexual harassment allegations. "The response comes less than two hours after former Insomniac Games employee Sol Brennan, who worked there as a technical director between 2016 and 2020, alleged the company treated women poorly and protected three sexual abusers."

Nooooo!!! God dang it, this world sucks.

[Huntsman Spider]

Nooooo!!! God dang it, this world sucks.

That it does. That it does.