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  1. #841
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm curious how many skins there will be. Miles honestly doesn't have a lot of options:

    - Into the Spider-Verse suit.

    - Clothed Into the Spider-Verse look.

    - Prototype Into the Spider-Verse costume.

    - His look from that D&D Champions arc?

    Also kind of surprised they're just using his normal costume look. Not that you can add too much to perfection but given they changed up Peter's look, I was expecting some alteration to Miles' look to signify he's the PS4 Miles Morales. Unless they felt Peter being the main meant it was more significant he get an Insomniac makeover then Miles.
    They can give Miles some original costumes. Peter has about 3 original costumes in this game.

  2. #842
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Can't believe I forgot to mention, I'd love for one of the side missions/stories to revolve around Lana and her mom. Kind of like how Tombstone had his series of side missions culiminating in a boss fight in the first game, have Miles intercept them on a couple of heists over the course of the game. All the while, Miles ends up bonding with Lana and she has a face-turn at the end of the side quest.
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  3. #843

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    Speaking of Tombstone, what if there's a stealth-takedown mission with Miles and Starling like the ones with Peter and Felicia from the Heist DLC. The two of the infiltrate one of Tombstone's warehouses and team up.

  4. #844
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    I just finished the first game a couple months ago. Wouldn't have expected another game so fast, but I'm really excited for it. I hope it's also made available for PS4.

  5. #845
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    If I had to imagine his outfits it'll probably be those in addition to:

    Civilian Clothes
    His Proto-Costume from the Ultimate Universe
    His Proto-Costume from the Annual
    Captain Universe
    Aaron's Iron Spider Costume
    Ultimatum

    His Symbiote design will probably be held off until Spider-Man 2, just like Peter's.
    I guess I underestimated how many costumes Miles has had.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    Sadly, Miles doesn't have a main premise like Peter or Kamala do (or even like Spider-Gwen). Every version of Miles has been completely different. Bendis' Miles was similar to Peter. The video game kept him an introverted nerd, but completely changed the relationship with his father. The movie went back to the family dynamic from Bendis, but changed Miles into an extroverted, artsy dude. Saladin Ahmed's Miles is like an in-between version of Bendis' Miles and ITSV Miles in personality, but Miles's relationship with his family is closer to the video game version.
    He didn't seem really introverted to me in the game...maybe somewhat after his dad died, but that was understandable.
    I think the ITSV version is the best version. Even then, Peter doesn't have to die. You can tweak Miles' origin and have one of Peter's clones die in his place.
    I think Peter's death is still a pretty big part of it, and you couldn't really have the same effect with a clone. .
    Fair enough, but I think it can work without taking away from Peter. What I like about ITSV is that all the Spider-Heroes look and act very different from each other, but have certain things in common (I.e. being misfits, having a sense of responsibility). They feel more like kindred spirits than people wearing Peter's likeness.
    I thought the movie did a good job of individualizing the Spiders. I'm not sure if that means they would work well together on a consistent basis because I think that kind of grouping only really works in a movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The main basic premise of Miles is that he's the young Spider-Man. An example of Spider-Man's legacy positively being claimed by someone else. That's the main element.
    Well, that he's a young Spider-Man taking over from a dead Peter Parker. I think the youth aspect is only really relevant when contrasted with an active older Peter or if it's an older Peter who died.
    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    Can't believe I forgot to mention, I'd love for one of the side missions/stories to revolve around Lana and her mom. Kind of like how Tombstone had his series of side missions culiminating in a boss fight in the first game, have Miles intercept them on a couple of heists over the course of the game. All the while, Miles ends up bonding with Lana and she has a face-turn at the end of the side quest.
    Yeah, I've said before I think it would be cool to have the Bombshells pop up .

    I'm not sure if the length or nature of the game will limit how many villains are in it. Be cool if we get at least 4-5 "name" bosses .
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern_Maker View Post
    Speaking of Tombstone, what if there's a stealth-takedown mission with Miles and Starling like the ones with Peter and Felicia from the Heist DLC. The two of the infiltrate one of Tombstone's warehouses and team up.
    That would be cool (and apropos) :.

  6. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The main basic premise of Miles is that he's the young Spider-Man. An example of Spider-Man's legacy positively being claimed by someone else. That's the main element.
    He was originally a 13 year old taking the place of a dead 16 year old. They were both the young Spider-Man.

  7. #847
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, that he's a young Spider-Man taking over from a dead Peter Parker. I think the youth aspect is only really relevant when contrasted with an active older Peter or if it's an older Peter who died.
    I agree.

    It's also important to remember something else. People first heard of and encountered Miles Morales for the first time in this press release (https://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2...cret-identity/) which came out before Ultimate Fallout #4 hit the stands. The date on this article is August 2, and the date of the issue is August 3. Empirically speaking, far more people knew of Miles through that press release than read the comic. It went "viral" online and across social media and was picked up by all the press.

    In terms of "first introduction" of Miles which matters so much to Marvel Editorial Ideology -- "what Miles is" matters more than "who Miles is" and "why Miles is". What matters is that he represents an update on the basic element of Peter (a poor working-class teenager and underdog) updated to the present generation and latest ethnic succession.

    That's how Miles Morales first attained fame. And that preceded his own run as Ultimate Spider-Man, his own origin story told by Bendis. People knew Miles Morales and came to love Miles Morales long before they learnt of his origin, long before they even saw his costume (yeah it took a few issues before Bendis-Pichelli gave Miles the most stylish black suited Spider-Man costume of all time). This was before his entry into 616 Marvel Universe. In fact, that's probably the real reason why there are so many variations of Miles across media. Because he became big before he was tied down and slotted. Fundamentally Miles as as character doesn't really depend on what happens in the comics stories themselves.

    Miles' popularity and fame is a referendum on Peter Parker, in that Peter can never again be the underdog working-class teenage hero. Miles' success makes that version of Peter, "teenage Spider-Man" or "high-school Spider-Man" obsolete. Evan Narcisse said as much in his years as a writer and critic, and I imagine that this standalone game will take that further. In either case, it was never Lee or Ditko's intention for Peter to be tied down to that archetype or anchored to it. They wanted Spider-Man to grow and change. There was never a real interest in their run on Spider-Man in the high school side of his life. Whereas with Miles it's there to a greater extent. Miles embodies far more than Peter a believable teenage hero.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 06-12-2020 at 03:52 PM.

  8. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think Peter's death is still a pretty big part of it, and you couldn't really have the same effect with a clone.

    I thought the movie did a good job of individualizing the Spiders. I'm not sure if that means they would work well together on a consistent basis because I think that kind of grouping only really works in a movie.
    Any version of Miles that co-exists with Peter will have to work around Peter dying, one way or another. Otherwise they can't really co-exist.

    I think they can co-exist if we go by the movie's idea that "we are all Spider-Man". If Spider-Man represents empowerment (as MJ says), and empowerment means different things to different people, then you can potentially have more than one Spider-Man.

  9. #849
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    I think the roles will be reverse where Miles is the main character and you'll play as Peter in minor missions, like Miles in the first game,...until Ock takes over Peter's body and becomes a major boss.
    Skeeter: Hey time traveling O5 members of the X-Men We don't take kindly to people who create a time paradox around here!

    Bartender: Now calm down Skeeter they aint hurtin nobody.

    Skeeter: No! I wanna know som'in from the "O5" How come you cant go back to your own timeline in the first place and how come when Reed Richards "fixed" the universe you wasnt put back and how come the changes that happn to you dont happn to your present day selves?

    Bartender: Skeeter I dont want trouble

  10. #850
    Mighty Member Dragonick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    Can't believe I forgot to mention, I'd love for one of the side missions/stories to revolve around Lana and her mom. Kind of like how Tombstone had his series of side missions culiminating in a boss fight in the first game, have Miles intercept them on a couple of heists over the course of the game. All the while, Miles ends up bonding with Lana and she has a face-turn at the end of the side quest.
    I would love that, and it would be a very natural path to take.

    As far as costumes go we don't even have to stick to things he's worn only within the pages of the comics. He's had some good picks in different variant covers like the 2020 and 2099 looks.



  11. #851
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    Any version of Miles that co-exists with Peter will have to work around Peter dying, one way or another. Otherwise they can't really co-exist.

    I think they can co-exist if we go by the movie's idea that "we are all Spider-Man". If Spider-Man represents empowerment (as MJ says), and empowerment means different things to different people, then you can potentially have more than one Spider-Man.
    Even in Ultimate Spider-Man, Miles wasn't the only one with Spider powers when Peter died...there was Ultimate Jessica Drew (a female clone of Peter), you also had some weird Spider-Man clone who was evil in one of the Ultimate books.

    Miles and Peter coexisting isn't really a bigger deal than Peter coexisting with the Fantastic Four and Iron Man and other heroes who can solve his problems and end his career on an afternoon if writers/editors sat down and let them to do it. It's down to the story being told. If a writer wants to focus on Peter and not on Miles and the Spider-Verse, they can write Peter in the main books without alluding to or mentioning Miles and the shared universe. Take Nick Spencer's run on ASM, not once has Miles shown up in any of the issues of ASM he has written. Tom Taylor had Miles in his FNSM run in a couple of issues, Donny Cates has used Miles but not Spencer. Spencer's events such as HUNTED didn't feature Miles.

  12. #852
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Miles' popularity and fame is a referendum on Peter Parker, in that Peter can never again be the underdog working-class teenage hero. Miles' success makes that version of Peter, "teenage Spider-Man" or "high-school Spider-Man" obsolete. Evan Narcisse said as much in his years as a writer and critic, and I imagine that this standalone game will take that further. In either case, it was never Lee or Ditko's intention for Peter to be tied down to that archetype or anchored to it. They wanted Spider-Man to grow and change. There was never a real interest in their run on Spider-Man in the high school side of his life. Whereas with Miles it's there to a greater extent. Miles embodies far more than Peter a believable teenage hero.
    Well, he can be all that without being a teenager. He's never stopped being a working class underdog even after growing up and successful adaptions have still depicted him starting out as a teenager trying to make ends meat for his aunt without making him any less believable a teenager.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    Any version of Miles that co-exists with Peter will have to work around Peter dying, one way or another. Otherwise they can't really co-exist.

    I think they can co-exist if we go by the movie's idea that "we are all Spider-Man". If Spider-Man represents empowerment (as MJ says), and empowerment means different things to different people, then you can potentially have more than one Spider-Man.
    I'm not necesarilly arguing against co-existence, but I feel like I have to point out the movie all ended with the other Spider-Men (and women) going off to their own worlds and leaving Miles the sole Spider-Man of his Earth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant God View Post
    I think the roles will be reverse where Miles is the main character and you'll play as Peter in minor missions, like Miles in the first game,...until Ock takes over Peter's body and becomes a major boss.
    I don't think we're going to get SpOck until the third main game, if we do at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Even in Ultimate Spider-Man, Miles wasn't the only one with Spider powers when Peter died...there was Ultimate Jessica Drew (a female clone of Peter), you also had some weird Spider-Man clone who was evil in one of the Ultimate books.

    Miles and Peter coexisting isn't really a bigger deal than Peter coexisting with the Fantastic Four and Iron Man and other heroes who can solve his problems and end his career on an afternoon if writers/editors sat down and let them to do it. It's down to the story being told. If a writer wants to focus on Peter and not on Miles and the Spider-Verse, they can write Peter in the main books without alluding to or mentioning Miles and the shared universe. Take Nick Spencer's run on ASM, not once has Miles shown up in any of the issues of ASM he has written. Tom Taylor had Miles in his FNSM run in a couple of issues, Donny Cates has used Miles but not Spencer. Spencer's events such as HUNTED didn't feature Miles.
    I think Miles and Peter work better with each other as guest heroes in each others lives ala the other heroes you cite rather than actual consistent presence in each others' lives. The Spider-Man cartoons seem to indicate why Miles being in Peter's life doesn't work out in the long run for Miles or Peter, ditto with other Spider-Heroes.

  13. #853
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, he can be all that without being a teenager.
    Agreed. That's why I included that specific combination with the word "teenager".

    I'm not necesarilly arguing against co-existence, but I feel like I have to point out the movie all ended with the other Spider-Men (and women) going off to their own worlds and leaving Miles the sole Spider-Man of his Earth.
    The last shot is Gwen calling out to Miles through the portals...so it's not like there won't be a connection going forward.

    I don't think we're going to get SpOck until the third main game, if we do at all.
    Doing Superior in any medium other than comics is always going to be hard if not impossible. What defined that event is not the story and concept, but the fact that Slott did it as an ongoing for a year. It's about duration and quantity primarily. If you correlate that to a game and a movie, it's basically an entire game or a movie where you play as Otto-in-Peter, except for maybe the very start and the very end, or in a movie where we see Tom Holland mug for the camera as Ock in his version of Tobey's "Emo Peter" shtick from Spider-Man 3.

    Such a prospect would be deeply uncommercial to start with. In the case of a videogame, especially a console exclusive, i.e. a system-selling title, the idea of these games is for players to be Spider-Man. Having a villain in a hero's body runs counter to that and it's not a version that publishers would be especially keen to invest in. Remember that by the time the next full sequel comes out on PS5, there will be a new console, a significant chunk of the people who bought the previous game on PS4 will not have converted in time so you can't simply rely or hope that the new people coming in would know the previous game. They have to be sold on the idea of being Spider-Man as much as the previous game did. And the prospect of some kid playing Spider-Man for the first time and their introduction being Otto-in-Peter is not something that a Sony executive would want to invest in. Spider-Man PS4 is not supposed to be some artsy game like Death Stranding, this is meant to bring the civilians in (or as they call them in games, casuals).

    At best, it can be some kind of DLC but highly short and circumscribed. And likewise if you want to do Kraven the Hunter and adapt some version of Kraven's Last Hunt that would discount the appeal of a story that's basically the same premise but padded out.

    More than that the Game's version of Otto is highly specific and quite apart from the comics' character that made Slott's Superior flex possible.
    -- Insom!Otto is fixated on hatred towards Norman, not driven by any kind of childhood abuse and grudge as in comics. Norman is his former friend in college.
    -- Insom!Otto is a scientist who has had some amount of achievement, professional standing and respect, unlike the highly unpopular and under-appreciated Otto who got involved in that nuclear explosion.
    -- Insom!Otto knows Peter very well and understands his life whereas Otto never did until he brainscanned Peter.
    -- Insom!Otto on some level cares about scientific excellence and doing good, whereas Otto even after he becomes Superior is basically a corporate scientist who wants to monetize his inventions.

    What made Superior Otto possible for Otto is the idea that Otto upon being imprinted with Peter's memories and consciousness would be capable of redemption. For that to work, Otto has to be completely remote and apart from Peter's life only to suddenly enter into that. At the end of the first game, Otto started as a good man respected by Peter, who also knows and appreciates Peter into breaking bad and becoming a bioterrorist that kills countless people, including Aunt May. It would not be believable on any level for this version of Otto to be interested in redemption by simply having Peter's memories and consciousness imprinted on him. And likewise, it would be hard to impossible to justify any redemption for the dude who killed Aunt May.

    I could be wrong of course, but I just don't see the set-up leading to Superior any time soon.

    I think Miles and Peter work better with each other as guest heroes in each others lives ala the other heroes you cite rather than actual consistent presence in each others' lives.
    I can accept that. I mean I think Peter and Miles can work as a team a la...well not Batman and Robin (Bruce and Dick Grayson) but as Batman and Robin (Dick Grayson and Damian Wayne) where you have some amount of equality and old-brother and kid-not-impressed dynamic. Their dynamic in Spider-Men II by Bendis was decent.

  14. #854
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Miles getting his own game, take my money!
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  15. #855
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, one other villain: Techno Golem.

    Still hoping that Saladin Ahmed brings Tomoe back in the comics as well.
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