Insomniac's Spider-Man for PS4 releases on September 7th

[Huntsman Spider]

I always thought what Morrison was trying to do with Batman Inc would work better for Spider-Man. I can see multiple Spider-Men co-existing that all operate individually but will occasionally team up with one another for big events. The big difference is that Peter wouldn't fund them all, he would just serve as the inspiration for the others.

Yeah, that could work. Call it the Spider Society . . . or Spider-Man Worldwide if you insist on paralleling with Batman, Incorporated.

[Frontier]

I always thought what Morrison was trying to do with Batman Inc would work better for Spider-Man. I can see multiple Spider-Men co-existing that all operate individually but will occasionally team up with one another for big events. The big difference is that Peter wouldn't fund them all, he would just serve as the inspiration for the others.

I mean, that's not really all that different from how it is now. Something "incorporated" implies a level of professional organization and financing that just isn't really Spider-Man as you allude too.

[J. D. Guy]

I think Spider-Man is such a solo-centric franchise, and this extends beyond Peter, that it would be a difficult adjustment trying to change it away from that. And we've seen this in the adaptions that try and throw in a bunch of other heroes or Spider-Heroes into Peter's life. At least in my opinion.

Which is why it's probably for the best that Miles is getting his own game instead of having to tell his story alongside Peter's.

Nah, that's no issue. Spider-Man has done ensemble media many times with no issues outside those who value nostalgia above most else; the previous and current animated series are two recent, prime examples. They just needed to do so with Miles and Peter as co-leads in an unambiguously earnest way. Maybe not let themselves fall into all the same old trappings in all the same old ways just because "that's how it was done before". Get out of that mindset completely (and not just half-so when they feel like it).

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Yeah, that could work. Call it the Spider Society . . . or Spider-Man Worldwide if you insist on paralleling with Batman, Incorporated.

If I had to make a 1:1 parallel (which I don't think would be a good idea - I was referring more to the spirit of Batman Inc where you had more than one Batman running around), I would give it a union name instead of 'Incorporated'. That would be more fitting in Spider-Man's case with Peter/Miles being working-class and not rich.

I used to think Peter is the end-all-be-all of Spider-Man, but I'm not as confident in that anymore. If the appeal of Spider-Man is that he is an "everyman" (as people say) , or that he is "empowering" (as people also say), you can potentially have more than one Spider-Man, right? I mean, not all "everymen" have the same personalities. Rocky Balboa is an everyman, but he isn't anything like Peter Parker. Also what counts as empowerment varies from person to person. I know people who ultimately love Spider-Man, but couldn't relate to the nerd thing as much as others did. All of this suggests that there is (or at least can be) more to Spider-Man than just Peter Parker, as universal as Peter's struggles may already be.

I think Into The Spider-Verse did the best job showing why there can be more than one Spider-Man. What I like about it is that all Spider-Characters have vastly different problems and personalities, but share a few traits in common like being misfits and not getting along with peers and authority figures. For example, Gwen is a lot more confident against bullies than Peter was, but her punk-rock personality is still an anomaly among her peers in the same way Peter's nerdiness was. Miles is more social than Peter was, but both never liked elitists and have personalities that rub cops the wrong way (in Miles' case it is more personal with his dad being an actual cop). Each completely different from one another but being kindred spirits in a way, similar to the characters in The Breakfast Club (although, again, not a 1:1 parallel) . If more Spider-Heroes were portrayed like that, I can see them all co-existing with Peter in the comics.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

There's this famous proverb, "existence preceeds essence", i.e. something exists before it gets defined/named/valued. So the landmass exists for a long period of history before some people start calling it say United States of America/New York City and so on...and which garnered those names simply because some people beat others to a race of discovery and in the case of New York (which was once New Amsterdam) has its current name because the original people who built that settlement lost a war.

By the same measure, the nature of popular culture these days is that people become fans of Spider-Man, or learn of Spider-Man long before they know him as Peter Parker. You want to know how regular people (i.e. civilians) knew of Spider-Man by and large before the first Raimi movie, they knew him from the cartoon theme song ("Spider-Man, Spider-Man") where Peter Parker's name is not mentioned once. These days young kids learn of Spider-Man through toys, labels, lunchboxes, parades and so on. When these kids and babies see Spider-Man they see someone in a mask, they don't see Peter Parker or anyone. The actual story of Spider-Man is quite separate from Spider-Man the icon, the intellectual property, the logo, the mascot.

Empirically, it's within the realm of possibility that for many kids there was a period in their experience where Miles Morales was the Spider-Man and not Peter Parker in the same way so many kids thought John Stewart was the Green Lantern and not Hal Jordan or Kyle Rayner (and many continue to do so). I mean the reason why Hal Jordan and Bally Allen are considered to own those franchises by Dan Didio and Geoff Johns is because the fans of Jay Garrick and Alan Scott weren't active or vocal or sizable enough to protest and shut down Barry and Hal fans back in the Silver Age. What that means is that the idea that Spider-Man is always Peter Parker or only Peter Parker and so on, much like the idea of Peter Parker being a teenager and so on, isn't really set in stone.

The idea that Peter Parker should alone be Spider-Man was defensible/valid/true only when the 616 Continuity had real integrity, monopoly of value, and dominating interest. But that hasn't been true for some time.
-- Thanks to the Clone Saga II which destroyed the integrity of the continuity. There are some comics fans who have posted here for whom Ben Reilly was the Spider-Man not Peter Parker. And quite a few have voiced approval for the original ending where Peter retires and Ben becomes full-time Spidey or alternate and so on.
-- Since the 90s, AU has become more and more important for the Spider-Man franchise, starting with Spider-Man 2099 going to Spider-Girl, then Ultimate Spider-Man (which outsold the main title and there's a generation of fans for whom Ultimate Spider-Man by Bendis is the only Spider-Man comic they read, and who never transitioned to reading 616). Ultimate Spider-Man has been the most influential run of comics with the title of Spider-Man in the 21st Century.
-- The biggest Spider-Man character since Venom and Carnage is Miles Morales. If there is a second, it's Spider-Gwen/Ghost-Spider. Both are AU creations who had to migrate to 616.
-- The Spider-Verse is going to remain a lasting sub-franchise of Spider-Man and the existence and success of that negates the monopoly of value that 616 Spider-Man claims.

So the way I see it the ship has sailed, for better and for worse.

[Frontier]

Nah, that's no issue. Spider-Man has done ensemble media many times with no issues outside those who value nostalgia above most else; the previous and current animated series are two recent, prime examples. They just needed to do so with Miles and Peter as co-leads in an unambiguously earnest way. Maybe not let themselves fall into all the same old trappings in all the same old ways just because "that's how it was done before". Get out of that mindset completely (and not just half-so when they feel like it).

I'd argue USM and Marvel's Spider-Man are prime examples of the struggle of trying to shift Spider-Man from a character-focused ensemble into a Superhero ensemble. They make a more convincing argument for why Miles as a supporting character for Peter just doesn't work for the character in the long-run.

The closest I've seen to them making it work is that Marvel Action Spider-Man series, where they go for more of a Flex Fighters dynamic.

Peter and Miles as equal co-leads could happen, but I believe both characters are better served in a solo and independent capacity.

If I had to make a 1:1 parallel (which I don't think would be a good idea - I was referring more to the spirit of Batman Inc where you had more than one Batman running around), I would give it a union name instead of 'Incorporated'. That would be more fitting in Spider-Man's case with Peter/Miles being working-class and not rich.

I used to think Peter is the end-all-be-all of Spider-Man, but I'm not as confident in that anymore. If the appeal of Spider-Man is that he is an "everyman" (as people say) , or that he is "empowering" (as people also say), you can potentially have more than one Spider-Man, right? I mean, not all "everyman" have the same personalities. Rocky Balboa is an everyman, but he isn't anything like Peter Parker. Also what counts as empowerment varies from person to person. I know people who ultimately love Spider-Man, but couldn't relate to the nerd thing as much as others did. All of this suggests that there is (or at least can be) more to Spider-Man than just Peter Parker, as universal as Peter's struggles may already be.

I think Into The Spider-Verse did the best job showing why there can be more than one Spider-Man. What I like about it is that all Spider-Characters have vastly different problems and personalities, but share a few traits in common like being misfits and not getting along with peers and authority figures. For example, Gwen is a lot more confident against bullies than Peter was, but her punk-rock personality is still an anomaly among her peers in the same way Peter's nerdiness was. Miles is more social than Peter was, but both never liked elitists and have personalities that rub cops the wrong way (in Miles' case it is more personal with his dad being an actual cop). Each completely different from one another but being kindred spirits in a way, similar to the characters in The Breakfast Club (although, again, not a 1:1 parallel) . If more Spider-Heroes were portrayed like that, I can see them all co-existing with Peter in the comics.

I guess it gets into the whole "anyone can wear a mask" mantra that Into the Spider-Verse popularized.

Spider-Man's an everyman in the sense that he (or someone using that codename) has a relatively grounded and normal civilian life that people can relate to and contrasts with their Superhero life. Of course, most everyday people can't lift tons of debris off of themselves through sheer willpower or commit to something like being Spider-Man on a consistent basis, so I think the actual individual persons character is important as well.

I think different people with different lives can embody the same ideals of Spider-Man as Peter does...and they do, but their existence doesn't necessarily contribute much to Peter's personal narrative. And I think this is felt a lot in media adaptions that try to have it both ways.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Spider-Man's an everyman in the sense that he (or someone using that codename) has a relatively grounded and normal civilian life that people can relate to and contrasts with their Superhero life. Of course, most everyday people can't lift tons of debris off of themselves through sheer willpower or commit to something like being Spider-Man on a consistent basis, so I think the actual individual persons character is important as well.

Agreed.

I think different people with different lives can embody the same ideals of Spider-Man as Peter does...and they do, but their existence doesn't necessarily contribute much to Peter's personal narrative. And I think this is felt a lot in media adaptions that try to have it both ways.

Agreed, although I can't think of many versions of Peter where they try to have it both ways. The one exception would be the Disney cartoons, but I think that has more to do with their dumbed-down writing. Even before the other Spider-People took off, Loeb and the rest of writers at Marvel TV were still unnecessarily shoving characters into Peter's personal narrative. There is no reason for it other than novelty and a false sense of what appeals to kids. Just like there was a push in the 90's to make kids shows more mature, there seems to have been a push in the 2010's from Marvel to make them "simpler". I think that is bound to continue with or without other Spider-People, unfortunately.

[CrimsonEchidna]

So one other hope/desire for the Miles game; we get Cloak and Dagger in a side mission/story. In fact, putting it in a back drop of some new metahumans being the result of Osborn doing experiments (Cloak & Dagger, The Bombshells) would be a nice way to plant seeds for 2 and be a nice loose tie-in to the Ultimate Comics.

Though there, it was Roxxon, not Oscorp.

[Huntsman Spider]

So one other hope/desire for the Miles game; we get Cloak and Dagger in a side mission/story. In fact, putting it in a back drop of some new metahumans being the result of Osborn doing experiments (Cloak & Dagger, The Bombshells) would be a nice way to plant seeds for 2 and be a nice loose tie-in to the Ultimate Comics.

Though there, it was Roxxon, not Oscorp.

That could work, and there's even precedent, given Oscorp's attempts at recreating Spider-Man being what led to Miles getting his own spider-powers in the first place, not to mention the prequel novel Hostile Takeover introducing a version of Blood Spider as an impostor Spider-Man created by Oscorp that went on a murderous rampage.

[Frontier]

Do Cloak and Dagger count as Spider-Man characters?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Do Cloak and Dagger count as Spider-Man characters?

They made their debut in Spectacular during Mantlo’s run.

[Frontier]

They made their debut in Spectacular during Mantlo’s run.

Yeah...I've just never been sure whether they count as, like, ancillary heroic Spider-Man characters ala Prowler, Rocket Racer, or Silver Sable since they seem to have really become their own thing but I guess there's still that association.

They've been in the last two Spider-Man cartoons so I guess there's that?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Yeah...I've just never been sure whether they count as, like, ancillary heroic Spider-Man characters ala Prowler, Rocket Racer, or Silver Sable since they seem to have really become their own thing but I guess there's still that association.

They've been in the last two Spider-Man cartoons so I guess there's that?

Certainly more connection than Taskmaster (who did show up in some of his creator David Michelinie's run on ASM).

[CrimsonEchidna]

Insomniac released some extra details on the game:

Let’s set the scene for the game a little more. It’s now wintertime, about a year after the events of the first game. Marvel’s New York is covered in snow, and just before Christmas break, a war between an energy corporation and a high-tech criminal army has broken out. Miles’s new home in Harlem is at the heart of the battle.

We know a lot of you want to know how big this game is. Our team at Insomniac has been working incredibly hard to bring you a fantastic Miles Morales adventure since we concluded development on Marvel’s Spider-Man. You’ll experience a full story arc with Miles, one that’s more akin to a game like Uncharted: The Lost Legacy in terms of overall scope. Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles Morales is an important, heartfelt, emotional and essential experience to expanding the Marvel’s Spider-Man universe. And we hope it will be for you as well.

Yeah, they totally moved Miles out of Brooklyn to Harlem so that they wouldn't have to Expand the map they built. lol

And they clarified for the record that it is going to be shorter than the first game, like Lost Legacy was compared to Uncharted 4. And finally:

Oh and one last thing: Many of you fans have wondered if Peter Parker is OK. Don’t worry, we still have much of Peter’s story left to tell. But this game is all about Miles, a critical part of our Spider-Man universe, and you won’t want to miss what happens.

So "energy company" and "high-tech criminal army."

Yeah I'm thinking I might have been on the money with this game adapting Roxxon arc from Miles' Ultimate Comics, with Techno Golem thrown into the mix.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Yeah, they totally moved Miles out of Brooklyn to Harlem so that they wouldn't have to Expand the map they built. lol

And they clarified for the record that it is going to be shorter than the first game, like Lost Legacy was compared to Uncharted 4.

Say what you want about Naughty Dog (a company with a brutal reputation for crunch) but when they made Lost Legacy they created an entire new setting, recorded dialogue in regional languages of India, and built a new wide-linear open world style map for the early mid-section of the game. They did reuse some assets from Uncharted 4 (which in turn used assets from earlier games) but it was a new setting built from the ground-up.

I am getting a little annoyed by the tendency of companies to fence in a story with non-white protagonists to side games. Even Uncharted Lost Legacy had an Indian-Australian girl as a lead so it kind of patented this. Like Ubisoft's AC games series had two games with black Player Characters and both were given to a PSVita game and a DLC respectively. Always bridesmaids and never the bride. Miles Morales is a little different in that it's a PS5 launch title which is the highest level of prestige these...let's them call them "spin-off token showcases"...have gotten so far.

Hopefully this game is so successful that it becomes a sub-franchise and it gets a sequel that expands on it completely. I also hope that some developer gets a contract to do a Black Panther game. Because Open-World Wakanda sells itself.

Game taking place a year after the first game was a bit of a surprise to me. I thought maybe three-four months after the last DLC.