Insomniac's Spider-Man for PS4 releases on September 7th

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Miles story tend to depend on their NOT being another Spider-man. Having there still be a Spider-man means he doesn't really have a reason to carry on the name.

At this point there are more issues with Miles Morales in 616 than in Ultimate Universe. In 616, he's Spider-Man alongside Peter.

So as far as "Miles and Peter co-existing in the same universe", that ship has sailed in all practical senses.

On top of that, he's essentially the rookie hero that is trying to live up to a more established legend, so when you put the two of them next to each other, he automatically seems to be the lesser of the two heroes.

That's in the eye of the beholder.

The way I see it Miles Morales lends honor to the legacy of Spider-Man and Peter Parker.

Miles' success and presence is more of a threat to Peter, or at least one version of Peter, than vice versa.

Editorially, it becomes hard to sell the idea of Spider-Man as being a loser if a bright young smart kid like Miles openly identifies with and takes up Spider-Man's legacy. You can't dismiss Miles as a fan or a naive kid without coming across as well...you know. So obviously that means that Spider-Man is having a positive impact in Marvel. Likewise, you can't sell the idea of Peter Parker being a young guy who hasn't found himself and "mentally 15" when you have someone even younger than him flourishing and embodying that idea far more than he himself ever did.

So to me, Miles' success and him having a Spider-Man name is not a problem for him as a character. It's a problem for Peter Parker, specificaly a Peter Parker fenced-in editorially, as he has been since OMD. That version of Peter Parker (which never existed historicaly since it was dreamed into being editorially in the 2000s) is the problem.

It's kind of like how DC had no idea what to do with Kyle Rayner after Hal Jordan came back or the struggles U.S. Agent and Thunderstrike had after they stopped being Captain America and Thor.

Those examples are different. Miles Morales in less than 10 years has had a level of success in media adaptations and merchandising far beyond Kyle Rayner or Thunderstrike ever did. That success means he's here-to-stay. John Stewart, Green Lantern, is closer to the mark since the most enduring and defining version of Green Lantern is the one in the JLU cartoons. But even then that's not really the same thing.

Miles Morales' success as a legacy character is quite unique and unprecedented and there aren't really comparable situations. For instance, people talked about Grant Morrison's Dick Grayson Batman. And yeah that was great and interesting but there has never been a cartoon show or a movie or a game where you play as Dick Grayson being Batman for the default. The only successful Batman series without Bruce Wayne in the outfit is Batman Beyond which had an OC Terry McGinnis in the outfit.

So it's hard to really arrive at some definite pattern with him.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Am I saying these other Spider characters can't exist? No. I'm not even denying Marvel doing stuff with Miles because he's so popular. I just believe both Peter and Miles are better independent from each other rather than together, and that media adaptions have furthered that belief in my mind.

Well I tend to believe that Spider-Man, Peter Parker, works best when he is by himself and doesn't crossover with the Marvel Universe (with select exceptions) and the shared universe has a minimal and background presence, i.e., Spider-Man comics work best when it convinces you that Peter Parker and his supporting cast are all that there is, and you can momentarily forget about the shared universe. And Spider-Man's great stories like The Master Planner Saga for instance make no references whatsoever to the wider Marvel Universe so you can read that story under the belief that Spider-Man is the only hero in that world.

The few great instances of Spider-Man in a shared universe story or a shared universe story elements in Spider-Man however would be cited to argue for the Shared Universe as an option and for seasonal spicing and flavoring.

So I don't see why you could not approach Miles the same way. Spider-Man Miles Morales comics in Bendis and Ahmed's run have a distinctive tone and approach, and Miles appears as a crossover character in Champions or Cates' Venom run, allowing Peter Parker more room in Spencer's run to do things his way. Spencer is able to write ASM without once featuring Miles in any issue. Tom Taylor used Miles in a cameo wonderfully in his FNSM run, including something as Peter Parker centric as the MJ issue in FNSM#13. So the way I see it the cake is being had and eaten.

Will there be a Peter and Miles two-dudes-hanging-out comic somewhere down the line. If a writer is interested in it, probably.

When I was reading Superior it was with the adamant belief that Peter would come back and eventually beat Doc Ock. I got the former, and only technically got the 2nd in Spider-Verse. I didn't like Otto being SpOck with an active Peter or all the passes people gave him and I have been pretty upfront about that.

With Ock, you have a case of a villain hijacking a hero's body and puppeteering that body with fairly bad acting that required everyone around Peter to ignore OOC signs.

With Miles, you have another kid bitten by a Spider having abilities like Peter, taking his name with full permission and consent from Peter.

So those situations aren't comparable. Superior was written before Miles was imported into 616 and quite obviously would not be the same story if Miles was present...since that story was written under certain assumptions, or advertised to be written under the assumption, that Peter Parker is only Spider-Man and that he is the "superior" Spider-Man, moral arguments that registered as hollow and insincere and trite to start with, but now totally compromised editorially.

[Frontier]

Well I tend to believe that Spider-Man, Peter Parker, works best when he is by himself and doesn't crossover with the Marvel Universe (with select exceptions) and the shared universe has a minimal and background presence, i.e., Spider-Man comics work best when it convinces you that Peter Parker and his supporting cast are all that there is, and you can momentarily forget about the shared universe. And Spider-Man's great stories like The Master Planner Saga for instance make no references whatsoever to the wider Marvel Universe so you can read that story under the belief that Spider-Man is the only hero in that world.

The few great instances of Spider-Man in a shared universe story or a shared universe story elements in Spider-Man however would be cited to argue for the Shared Universe as an option and for seasonal spicing and flavoring.

So I don't see why you could not approach Miles the same way. Spider-Man Miles Morales comics in Bendis and Ahmed's run have a distinctive tone and approach, and Miles appears as a crossover character in Champions or Cates' Venom run, allowing Peter Parker more room in Spencer's run to do things his way. Spencer is able to write ASM without once featuring Miles in any issue. Tom Taylor used Miles in a cameo wonderfully in his FNSM run, including something as Peter Parker centric as the MJ issue in FNSM#13. So the way I see it the cake is being had and eaten.

Will there be a Peter and Miles two-dudes-hanging-out comic somewhere down the line. If a writer is interested in it, probably.



With Ock, you have a case of a villain hijacking a hero's body and puppeteering that body with fairly bad acting that required everyone around Peter to ignore OOC signs.

With Miles, you have another kid bitten by a Spider having abilities like Peter, taking his name with full permission and consent from Peter.

So those situations aren't comparable. Superior was written before Miles was imported into 616 and quite obviously would not be the same story if Miles was present...since that story was written under certain assumptions, or advertised to be written under the assumption, that Peter Parker is only Spider-Man and that he is the "superior" Spider-Man, moral arguments that registered as hollow and insincere and trite to start with, but now totally compromised editorially.

I am fine with Spider-Man in a wider universe as long as the wider universe is usually relegated to team-ups every now and then and aren't a frequent thing like in the 90's cartoon where he'd team-up with somebody like Dr. Strange or Iron Man only once a season (stuff like Johnny is an exception). I feel similarly about Spider-Man and other Spider-Heroes with the same powerset as they seem to work better as guest stars then as consistent presences in his life or as "partners."

It can be fun to see Peter and Miles together once in a while but narratively I don't think either is completely necessary for the other, which is why they work better independently.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I am fine with Spider-Man in a wider universe as long as the wider universe is usually relegated to team-ups every now and then and aren't a frequent thing like in the 90's cartoon where he'd team-up with somebody like Dr. Strange or Iron Man only once a season (stuff like Johnny is an exception). I feel similarly about Spider-Man and other Spider-Heroes with the same powerset as they seem to work better as guest stars then as consistent presences in his life or as "partners."

It can be fun to see Peter and Miles together once in a while but narratively I don't think either is completely necessary for the other, which is why they work better independently.

Cool. Yeah.

I don't think there's a danger of the ASM comics becoming the "Peter and Miles" story full-time. Miles has his corner, Peter does. Miles adds to Peter and the Marvel Universe without subtracting from him. That makes him different from Superior Spider-Man which is completely subtractive (trading Doctor Octopus for another white male pretender Spider-Man joining the ranks of Ben Reilly and Kaine).

[Frontier]

Cool. Yeah.

I don't think there's a danger of the ASM comics becoming the "Peter and Miles" story full-time. Miles has his corner, Peter does. Miles adds to Peter and the Marvel Universe without subtracting from him. That makes him different from Superior Spider-Man which is completely subtractive (trading Doctor Octopus for another white male pretender Spider-Man joining the ranks of Ben Reilly and Kaine).

I mean, it depends how you look at it. I think Miles adds more to the franchise as a whole then he does to Peter as a character or Peter's personal narrative, whereas Superior, love it or hate it, was more relevant to Peter's personal story as a person and as Spider-Man.

[WebSlingWonder]

Regardless, I'm excited for this game.

[Celgress]

I mean, it depends how you look at it. I think Miles adds more to the franchise as a whole then he does to Peter as a character or Peter's personal narrative, whereas Superior, love it or hate it, was more relevant to Peter's personal story as a person and as Spider-Man.

A finale boss battle between Superior (Otto) Spider-Man and Miles Spiderman could be epic (if done right), just saying.

[Frontier]

Regardless, I'm excited for this game.

Same here .

A finale boss battle between Superior (Otto) Spider-Man and Miles Spiderman could be epic (if done right), just saying.

Maybe they could make it a dual-phase boss battle where the first phase is SpOck versus Miles but then it shifts the mindscape where Peter has to finish the job to get his body back.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

"basic personality and backstory" varying from writer to writer happens with Peter as well. If you go by the live-action movies, Peter has organic webbing, no he has special blood given to him by genius Dad, no he's a house-elf to Mr. Stark. And you know as far as Peter's "established core" the fact is there's a lot of disagreement about what that is. Different EICs have said different stuff.

Fact is nobody is sure if Peter can co-exist with the wider Marvel Universe, whether he should become an Avenger or so on. Not everyone likes that, or his direction in the MCU.

Kamala Khan is also far less obscure and well known than Miles Morales. And her story and background has the issue of it being tied to the Inhumans back when Marvel were trying to put them over instead of the X-Men, a period Marvel and fans generally want to pretend never happened.

You can argue that Miles Morales being so adaptable has what led him to become such a big character in the first place.

Peter varies from writer to writer, but there is a general core we see stay intact to Peter Parker. He is always an orphaned, introverted nerdy boy living with his older-than-your-average aunt and uncle. His origin is that he gets spider-powers which he at first uses selfishly, but learns that “with great power comes great responsibility” after not stopping the burglar that murdered his uncle. He is relatively more snarky and talkative when he is Spider-Man. The details change, but the nucleolus of Peter Parker is the same.

MCU Peter is arguably the exception that proves the rule. He is a result of 1) a desire to assimilate Spider-Man into the MCU instead of integrating him and 2) a messy situation (both legally and creatively) after a failed reboot. In the perfect world, MCU Peter wouldn’t be what he is. Peter is still…you know…’Peter’ Peter (for lack of better wording) under normal circumstances (ITSV and the Insomniac game prove this).


Miles varies significantly more. Just to list some examples: Sometimes he is an introverted nerdy kid like Peter (Bendis), other times he is more extroverted (Ahmed/ITSV). Sometimes he is a science or tech genius (Insomniac), other times an artsy dude (ITSV). Sometimes his dynamic with his dad and uncle vary. Sometimes the catalyst for him becoming Spider-Man is Peter’s death (Ultimate/ITSV), his father’s death (Insomniac), or nothing (616). It doesn’t make him any more ‘adaptable’ than Peter or Kamala, it just makes him more of a blank canvas.

It also shows a flaw in our culture: we see Peter as the nerdy Spider-Man (who happens to be white), and Miles as the black Spider-Man. The former is more known and marketed for his character, and that is why more of him stays intact from version-to-version besides just his skin color. The latter is at worst being tokenized, or at best is in the same shoes Daredevil and the X-Men were in during the Stan Lee era – characters which people generally liked and thought were good for representation, but didn’t find their footing until later (by this analogy, Ms. Marvel would be the 2010s’ equivalent of the Lee/Ditko Spidey).


Going back to WebSlingWonder's question, this is part of why Miles is still struggling to "prove" himself and co-exist with Peter. When he has more or less been treated as just "The Black Spider-Man" (or at worst The 'Other' Spider-Man), people will still have mixed feelings about him partly because they still don't know who he is. It is no coincidence that ITSV’s version of Miles is the most critically acclaimed by far, and that a lot of his naysayers felt like they finally got to know him after watching it. It also helps that ITSV Miles was 'The Artist Spider-Man' (who happens to be Half-Black/Half-Latino) rather than 'the black Spider-Man', since art compliments well with science and Peter is a scientist.

[Frontier]

Miles varies significantly more. Just to list some examples: Sometimes he is an introverted nerdy kid like Peter (Bendis), other times he is more extroverted (Ahmed/ITSV). Sometimes he is a science or tech genius (Insomniac), other times an artsy dude (ITSV). Sometimes his dynamic with his dad and uncle vary. Sometimes the catalyst for him becoming Spider-Man is Peter’s death (Ultimate/ITSV), his father’s death (Insomniac), or nothing (616). It doesn’t make him any more ‘adaptable’ than Peter or Kamala, it just makes him more of a blank canvas.

I think the PS4 game went a bit far in making Miles too much like Peter in a "Kid Flash" sort of way. So he's a tech and science wiz like Peter, he has a dead father figure to motive him to be a hero like Peter, has a single mom like Peter, etc. Next thing you know he'll have a love interest at his school who is a budding reporter.

So I hope this game does a good job of differentiating between the two characters and showing how Miles differs from Peter aside from the age gap and different powers.

I'm also curious if this version of Miles being a Spider-Man fanboy (unlike other versions of Miles) will still come across in this game.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Peter varies from writer to writer, but there is a general core we see stay intact to Peter Parker. He is always an orphaned, introverted nerdy boy living with his older-than-your-average aunt and uncle. His origin is that he gets spider-powers which he at first uses selfishly, but learns that “with great power comes great responsibility” after not stopping the burglar that murdered his uncle. He is relatively more snarky and talkative when he is Spider-Man. The details change, but the nucleolus of Peter Parker is the same.

Until 2008, with Weisman's Spectacular Spider-Man, every Spider-Man cartoon, no exceptions, featured Peter at college. Most of these adaptations didn't touch on origins at all. Stuff like Spider-Man and the Amazing Friends featured Firestar and Iceman as major allies. The so-called nucleus hasn't always been one thing all the time. Likewise, Spider-Man games didn't deal with the origins either for most part.

Miles varies significantly more. Just to list some examples: Sometimes he is an introverted nerdy kid like Peter (Bendis), other times he is more extroverted (Ahmed/ITSV). Sometimes he is a science or tech genius (Insomniac), other times an artsy dude (ITSV). Sometimes his dynamic with his dad and uncle vary. Sometimes the catalyst for him becoming Spider-Man is Peter’s death (Ultimate/ITSV), his father’s death (Insomniac), or nothing (616). It doesn’t make him any more ‘adaptable’ than Peter or Kamala, it just makes him more of a blank canvas.

I don't think one thing precludes the other. Just because Miles has an artistic side in ITSV doesn't mean he's a slouch in science (since he actually knows a bit about quantum physics and stuff).

It also shows a flaw in our culture: we see Peter as the nerdy Spider-Man (who happens to be white), and Miles as the black Spider-Man. The former is more known and marketed for his character, and that is why more of him stays intact from version-to-version besides just his skin color. The latter is at worst being tokenized, or at best is in the same shoes Daredevil and the X-Men were in during the Stan Lee era – characters which people generally liked and thought were good for representation, but didn’t find their footing until later (by this analogy, Ms. Marvel would be the 2010s’ equivalent of the Lee/Ditko Spidey).

That's a good point.

But I also think that we need to consider the situation and how different it is when Spider-Man was introduced and when Miles was introduced.

When Spider-Man appeared in AF#15, it was popular as a single issue and people read it but culturally it didn't make a dent at the time. If not for the launch of TASM as an ongoing months later, people would likely have forgotten about it. At best Spider-Man would have been harvested for world-building the way Al Ewing uses Timely Era stuff. Whereas before Ultimate Fallout #4 hit the stands, Miles Morales was given a big press blitz, the night before the New York Times ran a profile announcing his debut and that got picked up by the online ecosystem.

So in a sense Miles was created as an icon first and a character second. If there had not been no issue other than AF#15 that issue at least tells you a lot about Peter Parker and Spider-Man, but Miles' first appearance in Ultimate Fallout #4 gives us no mention of his name or his origins (something which Bendis would devote a long mini to tackle), and only at the end of that did Miles get his costume.

Going back to WebSlingWonder's question, this is part of why Miles is still struggling to "prove" himself and co-exist with Peter. When he has more or less been treated as just "The Black Spider-Man" (or at worst The 'Other' Spider-Man), people will still have mixed feelings about him partly because they still don't know who he is.

Don't know what the point is trying to cater to that crowd.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I think the PS4 game went a bit far in making Miles too much like Peter in a "Kid Flash" sort of way. So he's a tech and science wiz like Peter, he has a dead father figure to motive him to be a hero like Peter, has a single mom like Peter, etc. Next thing you know he'll have a love interest at his school who is a budding reporter.

So I hope this game does a good job of differentiating between the two characters and showing how Miles differs from Peter aside from the age gap and different powers.

I'm also curious if this version of Miles being a Spider-Man fanboy (unlike other versions of Miles) will still come across in this game.

In Insomniac's defense, they were the first to have to create a Miles that co-exists with Peter. I think Miles was just imported to 616 when they started working on the first game, and there were still many things that made no sense (i.e. what 616 Miles' origin was or if he remembered the Ultimate Universe). Insomniac had to make a new origin from scratch while primarily focusing on a story about Peter.

I think the unfortunate thing about both Insomniac and Saladin Ahmed's run is that they have to balance out previous continuity with making Miles closer to the version that kinda defines Miles now (ITSV). I'm enjoying Saladin Ahmed's run, but I would prefer less focus on the Ultimate stuff and more focus on Miles. I'm curious how Insomniac will deal with 'dilemma' that all the post-ITSV versions of Miles seem to share.

[Frontier]

In Insomniac's defense, they were the first to have to create a Miles that co-exists with Peter. I think Miles was just imported to 616 when they started working on the first game, and there were still many things that made no sense (i.e. what 616 Miles' origin was or if he remembered the Ultimate Universe). Insomniac had to make a new origin from scratch while primarily focusing on a story about Peter.

I think the unfortunate thing about both Insomniac and Saladin Ahmed's run is that they have to balance out previous continuity with making Miles closer to the version that kinda defines Miles now (ITSV). I'm enjoying Saladin Ahmed's run, but I would prefer less focus on the Ultimate stuff and more focus on Miles. I'm curious how Insomniac will deal with 'dilemma' that all the post-ITSV versions of Miles seem to share.

Technically they'd be the 2nd considering the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon ended up doing it too in it's fourth season. I think production-wise the game and the Marvel's Spider-Man cartoon (which also tries to fit Miles into Peter's story) were going on concurrently since Nadji Jeter auditioned for both.

I think a lot of the character decisions they made with Miles in the first game were made so he would feel more complimentary and sensible within Peter's story. So they handled him more like, say, Wally West rather then like he is in the comics.

Now that there is less of a need of that in his own game, it should be interesting to see what they do.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

My ideal Miles game would be something like Persona- where you can control both aspects of Miles's life and have them play off and affect each other. That's probably too pie in the sky for this title but there is always next time.

[SpideyCeo]

Well looks like peter is going to be outshined by miles, i told ya marvel gad no love for non minority types anymore. Oh and the concept that miles can be his own hero without peter is laughable at best, spiderman is peter and anyone else is a ripoff.

Oh and im not getting this game.