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  1. #1276
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    Not to get too political in here, but I've always loathed the term "liberal elite." It's a conservative talking point used, as of late, to vilify those on the left and paint their own as "true" populists. (Which couldn't be further from the truth.) And criticism of the media is used to dismiss fact as "fake news."

    Jameson always struck me as someone who was a bit right of center. The type to support a "law and order" campaign (Sam Bullit) until it became overtly racist. So yeah he likely wouldn't support the Trumps or the Alex Jones' of the world.

  2. #1277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    Not to get too political in here, but I've always loathed the term "liberal elite." It's a conservative talking point used, as of late, to vilify those on the left and paint their own as "true" populists. (Which couldn't be further from the truth.) And criticism of the media is used to dismiss fact as "fake news."
    Not really. "Liberal elite" is a term also used by leftists to refer to people within the Establishment that are culturally liberal. The reason the term is associated with conservatives is because the mainstream media frames it that way (for more information on this, google "Noam Chomsky's Propaganda Model").

    Traditionally Jameson has always been part of the "liberal elite", meaning he is culturally liberal and believes in equal political rights for women/minorities but is very pro-establishment. In real life he would probably be what we call a Clinton/Third Way Democrat.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 10-24-2020 at 01:51 PM.

  3. #1278
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    Not really. "Liberal elite" is a term also used by leftists to refer to people within the Establishment that are culturally liberal. The reason the term is associated with conservatives is because the mainstream media frames it that way (for more information on this, google "Noam Chomsky's Propaganda Model").

    Traditionally Jameson has always been part of the "liberal elite", meaning he is culturally liberal and believes in equal political rights for women/minorities but is very pro-establishment. In real life he would probably be what we call a Clinton/Third Way Democrat.
    Technically, they would be liberal in the sociocultural sense, while preferring to ignore or overlook the socioeconomic issues that disproportionately disenfranchise and disadvantage people who aren't wealthy. This (inadvertently) creates a divide between such people and others who are more socioeconomically disenfranchised and disadvantaged that gets used to turn those disadvantaged and disenfranchised others against liberal ideas and ideals, on account of perceived hypocrisy in those who advocate for sociopolitical/cultural justice and equality, but turn a blind eye to economic inequality because many of them either benefit from economic inequality or are financially backed by those who do.
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  4. #1279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    Not really. "Liberal elite" is a term also used by leftists to refer to people within the Establishment that are culturally liberal. The reason the term is associated with conservatives is because the mainstream media frames it that way (for more information on this, google "Noam Chomsky's Propaganda Model").
    I'm sorry, but I just don't buy into that level of conspiracy theorizing. I don't doubt that the term "Liberal Elite" was originally coined by those on the left (much like RINO and those on the right), but it's very much become a conservative talking point. All you have to do is watch a few hours of Fox news or listen to Trump and you'll hear the term thrown around ad nauseam. Everyone across the spectrum from the Clintons to AOC is painted as a "liberal elite." It has become a manipulative tactic used to turn the disenfranchised against liberal politics because "they're not like you."
    Last edited by Spider-Tiger; 10-24-2020 at 05:05 PM.

  5. #1280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    I'm sorry, but I just don't buy into that level of conspiracy theorizing. I don't doubt that the term "Liberal Elite" was originally coined by those on the left (much like RINO and those on the right), but it's very much become a conservative talking point. All you have to do is watch a few hours of Fox news or listen to one of Trump's rants and you'll hear the term thrown around ad nauseam. It has become a manipulative tactic used to turn the disenfranchised against liberal politics.
    Have you ever considered the reason you only hear conservatives use this terminology is because the mainstream media doesn't platform many leftist voices? This isn't a conspiracy theory. It is a fact that opinions in the mainstream media range only from those held by Third Way Democrats to those held by Republicans. We simply have to look at the political positions they argue in favor of to observe this. Voices from the left are generally excluded because leftist positions by-their-very-nature go against corporate interests.

    "Liberalism" is also still defined as being culturally/politically liberal and economically pro-free market/pro-establishment in most places outside of the US (the definition of "liberal" you're thinking of didn't pop up in the US until the 20th century). A lot of people into politics still use this terminology. Heck, "liberal" is considered a slur in some leftist circles.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 10-24-2020 at 05:28 PM.

  6. #1281
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    At the end of the day, Jonah just really hates Spider-Man. I don't think it should be any more complicated than that.

  7. #1282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    At the end of the day, Jonah just really hates Spider-Man. I don't think it should be any more complicated than that.
    I think it kinda is more complicated than that. Jameson is interesting partly because of what a brilliant satire of sensationalist and profit-driven media he is. The extent to which he will go to generate sales and attention is why he can be so funny, magnetic, and why the narrative of Peter as a photographer works in the first place. And his reasons for hating Spider-Man have always been more complex than just thinking he is a menace, as shown in ASM #10.

    The Alex Jones Jameson can still be fun and funny, but my point is that classic Jameson is all that and more interesting as a character.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 10-24-2020 at 05:39 PM.

  8. #1283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    At the end of the day, Jonah just really hates Spider-Man. I don't think it should be any more complicated than that.
    It kinda should, 'cause he has other personality traits that makes him stand out, even as far back as Ditko era, because plenty of other characters hated Spidey too, but JJ had **** like, being over dramatic, screaming a lot, being really cheap, a butt monkey and whatnot, if he's just hating Spidey, then he's not fun, all those traits gotta be there to make him funnier, and being able to balance them out well is why Raimi's movies, Spectacular cartoon and PS4 Spidey adapted him so well.

  9. #1284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    Have you ever considered the reason you only hear conservatives use this terminology is because the mainstream media doesn't platform many leftist voices? This isn't a conspiracy theory. It is a fact that opinions in the mainstream media range only from those held by Third Way Democrats to those held by Republicans. We simply have to look at the political positions they argue in favor of to observe this. Voices from the left are generally excluded because leftist positions by-their-very-nature go against corporate interests.
    I misunderstood what it was that you were arguing. That's a fair point, and one that I generally agree with. Anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread.

    I'm looking forward to seeing more of Jonah in future games. I'm hoping he's given an active role in the narrative at some point. Jonah is relegated to the background too often in adaptations.

  10. #1285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    It kinda should, 'cause he has other personality traits that makes him stand out, even as far back as Ditko era, because plenty of other characters hated Spidey too, but JJ had **** like, being over dramatic, screaming a lot, being really cheap, a butt monkey and whatnot, if he's just hating Spidey, then he's not fun, all those traits gotta be there to make him funnier, and being able to balance them out well is why Raimi's movies, Spectacular cartoon and PS4 Spidey adapted him so well.
    I know there's more to Jonah then just that, I was just thinking in terms looking too in-depth on his political beliefs .
    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    I misunderstood what it was that you were arguing. That's a fair point, and one that I generally agree with. Anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread.

    I'm looking forward to seeing more of Jonah in future games. I'm hoping he's given an active role in the narrative at some point. Jonah is relegated to the background too often in adaptations.
    I feel like we see him as Santa in Miles' game because they're saving him in the flesh in his normal look for the next Peter game.

  11. #1286
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    Welp Marvel Twitter went ahead and revealed, with Insomniac confirming that Prowler is in the game.



    Prowler is so tied to Miles' origin though that this is expected lol
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  12. #1287
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    Welp Marvel Twitter went ahead and revealed, with Insomniac confirming that Prowler is in the game.



    Prowler is so tied to Miles' origin though that this is expected lol
    Wonder what he'll be used for, 'cause in Ultimate all he did was have the spider around which he stole, which bit Miles, but that was replaced by MJ, and in Spider-Verse's movie, he's there to cause Miles to be bitten and is a huge part of his character development... I guess maybe he'll be used to show how dangerous and personal Spider-Man battles can be?

  13. #1288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Wonder what he'll be used for, 'cause in Ultimate all he did was have the spider around which he stole, which bit Miles, but that was replaced by MJ, and in Spider-Verse's movie, he's there to cause Miles to be bitten and is a huge part of his character development... I guess maybe he'll be used to show how dangerous and personal Spider-Man battles can be?
    Given his role in the Spider-Verse movie I could see him being a hired gun/enforcer for Roxxon to fight against the Tinkerer and the Underground.

    Since they went ahead and revealed him here, I doubt he's going to get a sudden Ganon hijacking like Otto did in the first game and become the main villain. Like i doubt Miles even learns in this game that his uncle is the Prowler.
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  14. #1289
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    Given his role in the Spider-Verse movie I could see him being a hired gun/enforcer for Roxxon to fight against the Tinkerer and the Underground.

    Since they went ahead and revealed him here, I doubt he's going to get a sudden Ganon hijacking like Otto did in the first game and become the main villain. Like i doubt Miles even learns in this game that his uncle is the Prowler.
    It'd be a waste if he doesn't learn that here, while leaving some stuff for future games to solve can be fine, Aaron being Prowler is too major and personal for Miles to happen next time.

    Now I'm thinking the twist is that Prowler is actually Robbie, now that would be a twist

  15. #1290
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    Gotta say though, I'm not the biggest fan of his design. It looks like they repurposed Shocker's helmet from the main game and then the rest is kind of bland to me. I love the symbol being prominent, but I wished they had used more of the ITSV suit for him.

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