Rogue and Gambit #4 Discussion (Spoilers!)

[R0d]

This was amazing, shame there's only one issue left. Kelly and Pere deserve to have a X-men ongoing, they make a great team.

[akiresu_]

I love that this is a mini. I hope we continue to get stellar, more adventurous minis to contrast against safe ongoings. The single greatest moment of my life is when i pick up the trade of these issues. Even if Thompson completely fails in every panel of every page of the final issue (which i don't think she will), this series is already a must-own for me.

[LegoLiz]

It is just a particular feature of Rogue that a part of her thinks Gambit doesn't deserve her. The two flashbacks illustrate this. The wedding memory is laced with Rogue basically explaining why Gambit is not good enough for her and ends with with her lamenting the fact that in the end she loves him. It is really not a good foundation for a relationship. "Hey I think this guy is a dick and doesn't deserve me but I am in love so what can I do."

Hey remydat! I have to ask, in the wedding flashback, how did you get the feeling that Rogue didn't think Gambit was good enough for her? I mean no disrespect because I sincerely am always interested in your opinions on this board. You are a great advocate for Gambit which I love.

In my reading, I felt the wedding flashback was dripping with insecurities Rogue has about herself that extend beyond Gambit. Because she knows her powers make her a difficult person for ANYONE to have a relationship with ("can't touch anyone, can't connect with anyone"). She is mocking herself because not only does she still go ahead and fall in love, she falls in love with someone who could have anyone - why would he choose her? "You think you're someone special that he'll stay around for...even when he can't touch you?" It seems like she feels HE is too good for her. He can have anyone else. Everyone probably wants a go at him, but no one can pin him down. And Rogue with all her hiccups as is, she is worried that he'll eventually leave and because she's already in love, she has to see it through. But that is more about Rogue and her doubts about her self-worth, rather than Gambit not deserving her - in my opinion of course.

Is it because she called him a snake? Well, Gambit himself thinks he is a bit of a scoundrel and he did just blast away his best friends/teammates. But to be honest, I think the scoundrel part to Gambit is part of why she loves him. She's said it on several occasions. So I don't think she meant it in an awful way?

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

This was amazing, shame there's only one issue left. Kelly and Pere deserve to have a X-men ongoing, they make a great team.

I wish Marvel would just release 'mini/maxi' books. We'd know there's an end and could choose to not pick it up if we didn't dig the issues and know that something else would be coming later. It makes more sense than relaunching every other year.

This book has amazing art, great pacing, and the creative team is awesome! I'd love to see them do the same with another pair of characters, or small group on another mini.

[Nevets]

This series is just so good.

[R0d]

Hey remydat! I have to ask, in the wedding flashback, how did you get the feeling that Rogue didn't think Gambit was good enough for her? I mean no disrespect because I sincerely am always interested in your opinions on this board. You are a great advocate for Gambit which I love.

In my reading, I felt the wedding flashback was dripping with insecurities Rogue has about herself that extend beyond Gambit. Because she knows her powers make her a difficult person for ANYONE to have a relationship with ("can't touch anyone, can't connect with anyone"). She is mocking herself because not only does she still go ahead and fall in love, she falls in love with someone who could have anyone - why would he choose her? "You think you're someone special that he'll stay around for...even when he can't touch you?" It seems like she feels HE is too good for her. He can have anyone else. Everyone probably wants a go at him, but no one can pin him down. And Rogue with all her hiccups as is, she is worried that he'll eventually leave and because she's already in love, she has to see it through. But that is more about Rogue and her doubts about her self-worth, rather than Gambit not deserving her - in my opinion of course.

Is it because she called him a snake? Well, Gambit himself thinks he is a bit of a scoundrel and he did just blast away his best friends/teammates. But to be honest, I think the scoundrel part to Gambit is part of why she loves him. She's said it on several occasions. So I don't think she meant it in an awful way?

I interpreted that flashback in the same way, Rogue admits she is inlove with him and because of her insecurities she is worried that this attractive charming guy that could have any woman he wants will eventually get tired of her and she might end up with her heart broken.

[Purplevit]

In the flashbacks of Cyclops and Jean's wedding, Gambit referring to the X-Men as one of his best friends touched me more than I expected.

Yeah. Gambit is such a loner now. In Gold he was referring to Storm that X-Men are just her friends. And now it felt natural.

[rogueisbae]

Hey remydat! I have to ask, in the wedding flashback, how did you get the feeling that Rogue didn't think Gambit was good enough for her? I mean no disrespect because I sincerely am always interested in your opinions on this board. You are a great advocate for Gambit which I love.

In my reading, I felt the wedding flashback was dripping with insecurities Rogue has about herself that extend beyond Gambit. Because she knows her powers make her a difficult person for ANYONE to have a relationship with ("can't touch anyone, can't connect with anyone"). She is mocking herself because not only does she still go ahead and fall in love, she falls in love with someone who could have anyone - why would he choose her? "You think you're someone special that he'll stay around for...even when he can't touch you?" It seems like she feels HE is too good for her. He can have anyone else. Everyone probably wants a go at him, but no one can pin him down. And Rogue with all her hiccups as is, she is worried that he'll eventually leave and because she's already in love, she has to see it through. But that is more about Rogue and her doubts about her self-worth, rather than Gambit not deserving her - in my opinion of course.

Is it because she called him a snake? Well, Gambit himself thinks he is a bit of a scoundrel and he did just blast away his best friends/teammates. But to be honest, I think the scoundrel part to Gambit is part of why she loves him. She's said it on several occasions. So I don't think she meant it in an awful way?

I read that scene the exact same way. I felt that it was basically explaining how Rogue felt about HERSELF in this relationship, her insecurities (“you think you’re someone special he’ll stay around for?) but how in the end, she chose her love for him over her fears. And for Remy, I think he was taken aback when he saw that memory because I don’t think he realized how profound her love for him is and at the same time, how low she thought of herself, expecting the worst to happen in the end (him eventually getting tired of her because of her inability to “connect” and leaving her)—like Remy said in the other panel, a lifetime of hope and disappointment all in a split second.

[AppleJ]

I read that scene the exact same way. I felt that it was basically explaining how Rogue felt about HERSELF in this relationship, her insecurities (“you think you’re someone special he’ll stay around for?) but how in the end, she chose her love for him over her fears. And for Remy, I think he was taken aback when he saw that memory because I don’t think he realized how profound her love for him is and the same time, how low she thought of herself, expecting the worst to happen in the end (him eventually getting tired of her because of her inability to “connect” and leaving her)—like Remy said in the other panel, a lifetime of hope and disappointment all in a split second.

Yeah, that's how I interpreted that flashback as well! So I did a weird thing with the flashback scenes where I read them 3 times - once just the colored thought bubbles, once just the character dialogue, and then integrated together. But I love that she chose this particular scene. A. It was smoking hot. B. There is an upcoming X-Men wedding to be reminded of. C. The symbolism implied by the bouquet and garter tradition being that that couple would be the next to marry - so it fit that Rogue was pondering why Remy would commit to her with what she felt she couldn't offer.

[remydat]

Hey remydat! I have to ask, in the wedding flashback, how did you get the feeling that Rogue didn't think Gambit was good enough for her? I mean no disrespect because I sincerely am always interested in your opinions on this board. You are a great advocate for Gambit which I love.

In my reading, I felt the wedding flashback was dripping with insecurities Rogue has about herself that extend beyond Gambit. Because she knows her powers make her a difficult person for ANYONE to have a relationship with ("can't touch anyone, can't connect with anyone"). She is mocking herself because not only does she still go ahead and fall in love, she falls in love with someone who could have anyone - why would he choose her? "You think you're someone special that he'll stay around for...even when he can't touch you?" It seems like she feels HE is too good for her. He can have anyone else. Everyone probably wants a go at him, but no one can pin him down. And Rogue with all her hiccups as is, she is worried that he'll eventually leave and because she's already in love, she has to see it through. But that is more about Rogue and her doubts about her self-worth, rather than Gambit not deserving her - in my opinion of course.

Is it because she called him a snake? Well, Gambit himself thinks he is a bit of a scoundrel and he did just blast away his best friends/teammates. But to be honest, I think the scoundrel part to Gambit is part of why she loves him. She's said it on several occasions. So I don't think she meant it in an awful way?

Oh I don't think those things are mutually exclusive. I would say there are 3 elements at play here.

1. Rogue is insecure.
2. Gambit provides plenty of reason for her to be insecure over the years.
3. Due to 1 & especially 2, there is a part of Rogue that will always think Gambit isn't right for her.

Put another way, if Rogue were more confident, she would be able to accept Gambit for who he is. If Gambit were less of a snake/scoundrel/secretive, he would maybe be able to help her get past her insecurities. So the problem here is they are simply not a good fit for each other given their respective natures.

In real life, I would say to Rogue she needs to get over her insecurities and I would tell Gambit he needs to stop giving Rogue reason to doubt him. In the world of fiction, I think having Rogue get over her insecurities would actually make her a better character as that shit just gets old. By contrast, I think having Gambit be less of a snake/scoundrel eliminates a core aspect of the character.

So the point here is, I think for storytelling purposes Gambit has to remain a scoundrel so the only way for Romy to work is for Rogue to stop being so damn insecure and just accept that Gambit loves her and that is all that should matter. I just don't see writers ever letting her do that because I think they prefer Rogue to not be in control of her powers and for her to be insecure. The two things go hand in hand IMO. Every time Rogue is confident, happy, and in control, some writer will come along and due to their inability to be creative, revert her back to the insecure and out of control mess that they seem to like. And who knows, I am not a Rogue fan so maybe that is the version of Rogue her fans like. I just hate that version of Rogue when it comes to Romy.

Contrast that with say XTAS Rogue and sure she still had her problems with Gambit but at the end of the day, she like Gambit decided the love was more important than their issues. I never get the sense that 616 Rogue feels that way or more precisely that the writers feel that way.

I will end with something Carey's Gambit said. While I hated Legacy and Racky Lebeau, Carey's Gambit was right about one thing. In matters of love, reasons for and against should fall away. It's been years later and I still don't think Rogue has learned that lesson but maybe that is what KT is building to. I just don't have faith that if she is that it will stick with future writers.

[Omegarogue]

The best book of all, I am as much fans of both characters in individual as I am of them as a couple, and Kelly sees them loves them in both senses, and they are so well written, there are memories, new FB added, love returned , and they are so well written, besides that there is action in heaps.

Kelly needs to have one of the new X-books to announce, or to replace one of the writers of the current books.

I need Rogue to be on a Xteam written by Kelly, since her time in GOLD I think it will be like a reserve team and he will only come out from time to time, Gambit reserves me until he sees that he is portrayed in RED.

But Kelly writes to the two character spectacular, in every way.

_________________________


Love the new/extended FB of the wedding of Jean and Scott, they looked so cute, and als very good action sequencing, great art, lots of fun and very well written everything, great Miss Tompson.

ROMY FOREVER.

[butterflykyss]

I thought the issue was good but what was far better are the comments and the reception of this book. I'm not nearly as big of a fan for these two as many are here but reading these comments of fans of the character going down memory lane and fans being so moved by the care the writer took in both characters wss very warming to read. congrats guys I'm very happy for you and thanks for the very thoughtful comments. please I would encourage you to write marvel and let them know how pleased you were by her work!

[Tarantino]

Gambit catching Jean's garter, did anyone see the striking resemblance he has with Ian Somerhalder?

[Purplevit]

I thought the issue was good but what was far better are the comments and the reception of this book. I'm not nearly as big of a fan for these two as many are here but reading these comments of fans of the character going down memory lane and fans being so moved by the care the writer took in both characters wss very warming to read. congrats guys I'm very happy for you and thanks for the very thoughtful comments. please I would encourage you to write marvel and let them know how pleased you were by her work!

If most minis had such high level of quality then sales of minis would be much better and sales would be better. Minis won`t be counted as dead seller even before it arrives.

[AppleJ]

I thought the issue was good but what was far better are the comments and the reception of this book. I'm not nearly as big of a fan for these two as many are here but reading these comments of fans of the character going down memory lane and fans being so moved by the care the writer took in both characters wss very warming to read. congrats guys I'm very happy for you and thanks for the very thoughtful comments. please I would encourage you to write marvel and let them know how pleased you were by her work!

Thank you for pointing this out! I love that this thread is full of great discussion and analysis and not weighed down by some of the general negativity I see sometimes about other books. I for one wrote in to Marvel and I know a few others did too, but more would be better!