Bullets and Diana

[AmiMizuno]

With a magic bullet for me it depends on the person. I wonder with swords should she be die from those easily? For me it’s the same thing has bullets. It’s just if it’s normal than large cuts. I mean I think with the amazons their swords shouldn’t be just regular swords from our world. That they make them more powerful and hard to break.

[VonHammersmark]

If DC is adamant on keeping this weakness, they should explain it as a curse that renders Diana defenseless against guns, and only the bracelets forged from the remnants of Zeus' Aegis can circumvent it

[AmiMizuno]

True. A curse would work but if she is a Demi-goddess now how far should she be invulnerable to certain Hong? I really do think it should be small cuts . However, if she didn’t have her powers would gravely wounded her amazons aren’t bulletproof but a single bullet will not kill them

[ShaunN]

I am really, really tired of Diana being vulnerable to bullets. This just doesn't make any sense. I agree with the OP - Rucka established that Diana could be hurt by bullets (she was shot through the heart by Poison, if I recall) but she heals almost immediately and finds it only inconvenient, at best. The present JL, where she is dying from a richochet off of Superman, just adds insult to injury. It's just infuriating.

As for why this vulnerability makes no sense: a woman who is as strong as Superman, who can trade blows with Darkseid and Doomsday, who can walk through molten lava and fire, who can survive nuclear blasts without harm - someone who can do all of this must have a body that is unbelievably durable. It would have to be, for her fists not to break on the bodies of many of these beings. For her to be vulnerable to mere bullets is just stupid. In the Injustice series, bullets bounce off of Diana. It's time that DC brought this into the regular DC universe.

[The Dying Detective]

Okay those who advocate making Diana invulnerable to bullets think it doesn't make sense for her to be vulnerable. Then let me ask this then what's the point of the bracelets? And don't say anything about psychological warfare because if Supergirl can use her body to deflect bullets and intimidate thugs then the bracelets have to go. Wonder Woman can just use her body to deflect bullets. And just how strong do you want her to be because without any viable weaknesses to take advantage of Wonder Woman's only enemies might as well Cheetah, Ares, and Circe. Because villains who rely mainly on strategy to win like Doctor Cyber, Colonel Poison, and Veronica Cale will have nothing to use against her. Further more without relying on magic how can they kill her? Otherwise ditch them and just create villains that only use magic and super science to make themselves strong as her to get and advantage. And honestly everyone's upset only because people like John Byrne and Christopher Priest just take it too far because let's face it Diana is often a very hard character to balance because of so many contradictions you go mad trying to apply realism to her.

[Korath]

For all the flack it gets, I think New 52 did a good job establishing that the bracelets aren't here to protect Diana, but to protect her opponents. Diana is not the kind of hero to go all out and try to crush her enemies physically and mentally, so her making sure that her powers are contained to a level sufficient to deal with the threat without risking further alienation by unleashing her full power makes sense, at least to me. For the common criminal or her usual foes, the bracelets may be used as defensive pretense by Wonder Woman to avoid crushing their spirits (because it doesn't help viable rehabilitation, at least I don't it does). For guys like Darkseid, Barbatos and others of the same caliber, she takes off the gloves, so to speak.

And there is a lot of ways to break or defeat an "indestructible" opponent, even for normal villains like Cyber and Poison and Cale. Destruction doesn't necessarily have to be physical. Have them exhaust Diana's mental fortitude by engineering constant crises she has to stop, add physcological warfare by threatening the peoples she care about in indirect ways but obvious enough to add a strain on her, or even manipulate her friends to become her foes (like it happened with Silver Swan), etc. I think someone able to bring Diana on her kness without brute force or magic would be far more terrible than the usual depiction of Ares as a uni-dimensional villain, or Circe resorting once more to her armies of mutated creatures and spells of doom.

But Diana being vulnerable to bullets is asinine. What's next ? Darkseid is weak against clear water ?

[The Dying Detective]

For all the flack it gets, I think New 52 did a good job establishing that the bracelets aren't here to protect Diana, but to protect her opponents. Diana is not the kind of hero to go all out and try to crush her enemies physically and mentally, so her making sure that her powers are contained to a level sufficient to deal with the threat without risking further alienation by unleashing her full power makes sense, at least to me. For the common criminal or her usual foes, the bracelets may be used as defensive pretense by Wonder Woman to avoid crushing their spirits (because it doesn't help viable rehabilitation, at least I don't it does). For guys like Darkseid, Barbatos and others of the same caliber, she takes off the gloves, so to speak.

And there is a lot of ways to break or defeat an "indestructible" opponent, even for normal villains like Cyber and Poison and Cale. Destruction doesn't necessarily have to be physical. Have them exhaust Diana's mental fortitude by engineering constant crises she has to stop, add physcological warfare by threatening the peoples she care about in indirect ways but obvious enough to add a strain on her, or even manipulate her friends to become her foes (like it happened with Silver Swan), etc. I think someone able to bring Diana on her kness without brute force or magic would be far more terrible than the usual depiction of Ares as a uni-dimensional villain, or Circe resorting once more to her armies of mutated creatures and spells of doom.

But Diana being vulnerable to bullets is asinine. What's next ? Darkseid is weak against clear water ?

I don't know where you came up with that analysis about her bracelets but honestly it doesn't make sense she should be using them to protect herself and those around her. Yeah but here's the problem you can't keep relying on trying to threaten her psychologically all the time otherwise the stories get stale. And the idea of the bracelets being used to contain her power has long since been discarded. With Superman you have a myriad of ways to threaten him make him compromise on his ideals, threaten his love ones, using Kryptonite, magic, red sun radiation, or lead. Batman has more vulnerabilities than that even when he's a Batgod. So how creative can a person be with Diana then when she has almost no weaknesses to take advantage of except psychological ones? Tying her up with her lasso is next to impossible. And isn't Captain Marvel not as invulnerable as Achilles?

[Gaelforce]

Okay those who advocate making Diana invulnerable to bullets think it doesn't make sense for her to be vulnerable. Then let me ask this then what's the point of the bracelets? And don't say anything about psychological warfare because if Supergirl can use her body to deflect bullets and intimidate thugs then the bracelets have to go. Wonder Woman can just use her body to deflect bullets. And just how strong do you want her to be because without any viable weaknesses to take advantage of Wonder Woman's only enemies might as well Cheetah, Ares, and Circe. Because villains who rely mainly on strategy to win like Doctor Cyber, Colonel Poison, and Veronica Cale will have nothing to use against her. Further more without relying on magic how can they kill her? Otherwise ditch them and just create villains that only use magic and super science to make themselves strong as her to get and advantage. And honestly everyone's upset only because people like John Byrne and Christopher Priest just take it too far because let's face it Diana is often a very hard character to balance because of so many contradictions you go mad trying to apply realism to her.

It's simple for me - scale.

Comics have scaled up over the decades, and heroes scaled with them. Superman went from leaping and being faster than a bullet to flying light speed through space. Batman went from a two-fisted guy in a costume to being a bulletproof master of every martial art ever.

Diana blocking bullets was an insane, unique talent originally, but now bullet blocking with swords is something two-bit ninjas have been seen doing.

Bullets should be a non-starter when Darkseid has Omega Beams.

High powered energy blasts/lasers etc. should pose a possible threat, so that would be when she could use the bracelets. Times like the Justice League movie scene where she moves across a room while blocking bullets to protect others is also cool. But when Aquaman is bouncing bullets off of his skull these days, Diana should not get left behind.

In a universe where heroes are constantly getting new and better abilities, Diana has remained stagnant or gone backwards. Once a scientist, she now has been shown to possess zero non-combat skills in the comics. Bullets haven't been a threat to a non-street level hero since I don't know when (I can't recall the last time someone actually got shot in the comics), yet Diana's been shot 2 or 3 times in the past six months.

Everyone else in the DCU has improved in their defenses to the point that bullets are generally considered irrelevant. Street heroes with no armor easily charge into blazing gunfire without a scratch, but one of the most powerful heroes in the DCU has remained unchanged.

Diana needs to scale up with the rest of them, with the bracelets needed to protect others and block more powerful weapons/powers.

[The Dying Detective]

It's simple for me - scale.

Comics have scaled up over the decades, and heroes scaled with them. Superman went from leaping and being faster than a bullet to flying light speed through space. Batman went from a two-fisted guy in a costume to being a bulletproof master of every martial art ever.

Diana blocking bullets was an insane, unique talent originally, but now bullet blocking with swords is something two-bit ninjas have been seen doing.

Bullets should be a non-starter when Darkseid has Omega Beams.

High powered energy blasts/lasers etc. should pose a possible threat, so that would be when she could use the bracelets. Times like the Justice League movie scene where she moves across a room while blocking bullets to protect others is also cool. But when Aquaman is bouncing bullets off of his skull these days, Diana should not get left behind.

In a universe where heroes are constantly getting new and better abilities, Diana has remained stagnant or gone backwards. Once a scientist, she now has been shown to possess zero non-combat skills in the comics. Bullets haven't been a threat to a non-street level hero since I don't know when (I can't recall the last time someone actually got shot in the comics), yet Diana's been shot 2 or 3 times in the past six months.

Everyone else in the DCU has improved in their defenses to the point that bullets are generally considered irrelevant. Street heroes with no armor easily charge into blazing gunfire without a scratch, but one of the most powerful heroes in the DCU has remained unchanged.

Diana needs to scale up with the rest of them, with the bracelets needed to protect others and block more powerful weapons/powers.

Yeah but sometime making a character stronger isn't always the best idea. Look at the Flash even with his increased powers the Rogues who are mostly made up of two-bit bank robbers with gadgets are able to threaten and challenge the Flash even though with his increased powers catching them should be a breeze even if they have a plan to deal with him. And so I get the impression that DC just relies on evil speedsters to give the Flashes better challenges. Which has made some less happy that even more evil speedsters are being made. With that in mind some are wondering how is it possible that they can challenge the Flash? Some even prefer if they had powers like Gorilla Grodd, Mirror Master, or the Top to make themselves more challenging. And the Green Lanterns who once had safe guards to stop them from killing only for those safe guards to get removed leaving any member of the Corp free to abuse their powers when they want to and nothing short of a another Corp member being around to can stop them. So Wonder Woman's side of DC isn't the only corner that leave readers aggravated and puzzled. I supposed using lasers and everything should at least provide some sort of challenge as opposed to guns but I still maintain the fact if she is invulnerable then get rid of the bracelets because laser fire cannot not even hurt Superman unless it was powered by red sun radiation or Kryptonite. So if you would rather have that Diana can still just use her body to protect others and ditch the bracelets. But technically Diana has been blasted across the room by high energy blasts and still come out of it alive. Making her stronger has been something of a challenge when there is often very little you can do with nothing short of giving her all of Superman's powers and you might as well rename her Superwoman. As for making her stronger I supposed it would help if you're a fan of the George Perez set-up make her knowledgeable of Amazonian magic because no one wants to use her skills at diplomacy even when there is a need for it. Or somehow restore the advanced technology society. Or you could simply give her a healing factor. Just don't let her abuse it to the point you find her looking like Wolverine. Though being a child of Zeus should grant Diana extra powers if you read Percy Jackson. But didn't Greg Rucka make her stronger because he gave her a healing factor and the ability to talk to animals.

[Gaelforce]

Yeah but sometime making a character stronger isn't always the best idea. Look at the Flash even with his increased powers the Rogues who are mostly made up of two-bit bank robbers with gadgets are able to threaten and challenge the Flash even though with his increased powers catching them should be a breeze even if they have a plan to deal with him. And so I get the impression that DC just relies on evil speedsters to give the Flashes better challenges. Which has made some less happy that even more evil speedsters are being made. With that in mind some are wondering how is it possible that they can challenge the Flash? Some even prefer if they had powers like Gorilla Grodd, Mirror Master, or the Top to make themselves more challenging. And the Green Lanterns who once had safe guards to stop them from killing only for those safe guards to get removed leaving any member of the Corp free to abuse their powers when they want to and nothing short of a another Corp member being around to can stop them. So Wonder Woman's side of DC isn't the only corner that leave readers aggravated and puzzled. I supposed using lasers and everything should at least provide some sort of challenge as opposed to guns but I still maintain the fact if she is invulnerable then get rid of the bracelets because laser fire cannot not even hurt Superman unless it was powered by red sun radiation or Kryptonite. So if you would rather have that Diana can still just use her body to protect others and ditch the bracelets. But technically Diana has been blasted across the room by high energy blasts and still come out of it alive. Making her stronger has been something of a challenge when there is often very little you can do with nothing short of giving her all of Superman's powers and you might as well rename her Superwoman. As for making her stronger I supposed it would help if you're a fan of the George Perez set-up make her knowledgeable of Amazonian magic because no one wants to use her skills at diplomacy even when there is a need for it. Or somehow restore the advanced technology society. Or you could simply give her a healing factor. Just don't let her abuse it to the point you find her looking like Wolverine. Though being a child of Zeus should grant Diana extra powers if you read Percy Jackson.

Except she has a healing factor - it's been shown as recently as a few months ago when she was shot through the heart/chest and she healed in a few minutes. In nu52, broken arms were mended before the issue was finished.

The biggest issue with Diana is inconsistency from one writer to the next. Robinson's run, more than others, has just aggravated the heck out of me since she lamented that she's not a 'planner' and 'oh, if only Steve were here' to plan it for her.

DC can't make up their minds what they want to do with her, and this translates to each writer getting to create someone different.

Originally a scientist, she created the purple healing ray to bring Steve back from near death and, and invented the invisible jet. Post-COIE, she was a strategist, an author, and an ambassador.

But since nu52, she hasn't had a 'job', so to speak, outside of working with ARGUS and the military hitting things in the face.

She could deflect bullets blindfolded because her senses were so sharp, but now she hasn't been shown as having any enhanced senses at all.

She entered the speed force under her own power, yet now she needs her twin brother to get from point A to point B because he's faster than she is.

She isn't just inconsistent from era to era, but from month to month (see 'healing a gun shot wound' Rucka vs Robinson) and DC doesn't seem to care.

As to the bullet issue - bullets were *the* main threat in the 40s. All the bad guys had guns coming out of the Pulp era - it was standard munitions and fisticuffs, so not being bulletproof was fine for the time.

But I stand by a bulletproof Diana in this day and age. Nu52 had full body covering that was bulletproof. Injustice has a completely bulletproof Diana. When she was shot by an arrow pre-nu52, it was stated that it pierced her flesh and was undetected because it was enchanted, making it clear that a normal 'piercing' arrow wouldn't have done the trick.

Consistency is key, but again, when the street heroes don't care about bullets anymore, there's no reason Wonder Woman should have to worry.

[The Dying Detective]

Except she has a healing factor - it's been shown as recently as a few months ago when she was shot through the heart/chest and she healed in a few minutes. In nu52, broken arms were mended before the issue was finished.

The biggest issue with Diana is inconsistency from one writer to the next. Robinson's run, more than others, has just aggravated the heck out of me since she lamented that she's not a 'planner' and 'oh, if only Steve were here' to plan it for her.

DC can't make up their minds what they want to do with her, and this translates to each writer getting to create someone different.

Originally a scientist, she created the purple healing ray to bring Steve back from near death and, and invented the invisible jet. Post-COIE, she was a strategist, an author, and an ambassador.

But since nu52, she hasn't had a 'job', so to speak, outside of working with ARGUS and the military hitting things in the face.

She could deflect bullets blindfolded because her senses were so sharp, but now she hasn't been shown as having any enhanced senses at all.

She entered the speed force under her own power, yet now she needs her twin brother to get from point A to point B because he's faster than she is.

She isn't just inconsistent from era to era, but from month to month (see 'healing a gun shot wound' Rucka vs Robinson) and DC doesn't seem to care.

As to the bullet issue - bullets were *the* main threat in the 40s. All the bad guys had guns coming out of the Pulp era - it was standard munitions and fisticuffs, so not being bulletproof was fine for the time.

But I stand by a bulletproof Diana in this day and age. Nu52 had full body covering that was bulletproof. Injustice has a completely bulletproof Diana. When she was shot by an arrow pre-nu52, it was stated that it pierced her flesh and was undetected because it was enchanted, making it clear that a normal 'piercing' arrow wouldn't have done the trick.

Consistency is key, but again, when the street heroes don't care about bullets anymore, there's no reason Wonder Woman should have to worry.

So the issue is not so much her vulnerabilities but the fact nothing stays consistent from writer to writer not even writers or even the editorial care to do it right. So here's an idea maybe if it was possible try developing some unique weaknesses for Diana so that she doesn't get jobbed by bullets and the only times she gets shot are negated by her healing factor which should be common among Amazons. I don't know whether the group editor mentioned in the latest issue means anything but if there was an editor for her it would have been announced. The problem is that who wants to use her diplomat job? The only time it would be used if the stories were more politically driven but no one has really written any of those for her and to top it all off since taking away her secret identity giving her a normal life with a job has been hard to do. And all thanks to the whole goddess of truth thing. IF there was different purpose for her leaving other than to be a diplomat it would be easier to give her a normal job but then there's the whole goddess of truth thing.

[Gaelforce]

So the issue is not so much her vulnerabilities but the fact nothing stays consistent from writer to writer not even writers or even the editorial care to do it right. So here's an idea maybe if it was possible try developing some unique weaknesses for Diana so that she doesn't get jobbed by bullets and the only times she gets shot are negated by her healing factor which should be common among Amazons. I don't know whether the group editor mentioned in the latest issue means anything but if there was an editor for her it would have been announced. The problem is that who wants to use her diplomat job? The only time it would be used if the stories were more politically driven but no one has really written any of those for her and to top it all off since taking away her secret identity giving her a normal life with a job has been hard to do. And all thanks to the whole goddess of truth thing. IF there was different purpose for her leaving other than to be a diplomat it would be easier to give her a normal job but then there's the whole goddess of truth thing.

Magical or enchanted items would work (especially since DC established that there's a magical black market that Batman can access). Bullets are just so common and so mundane and, as seen in JL, downright crippling to her that it's gotten silly.

I'm absolutely for a weakness. I just think this one is long past its time just as it is for pretty much every single other superhero in the DCU who has moved past the fear of regular guns.

As to the job? The current JL storyline is a perfect example of where an ambassador/diplomat could move center stage as this multi-arc storyline is all about public perception and relations between heroes and the public. However, I understand what you're saying. The thing is, I don't think you need diplomatic/ambassadorial storylines anymore than you need constant news storylines for Superman. It's just something he knows and is good at.

But if you go the Ambassador/Diplomat route? She becomes the peace maker. Take the stupid fight between her and Green Lantern at the beginning of Nu52 where Batman intervenes? That should have been a fight between two others where *Diana* intervenes. There are plenty of opportunities where she can be shown as the compassionate/reasonable person who helps others work things out or who interfaces with agencies/governments (being pan-lingual)/other heroes/villains, what have you. It's not flashy, but it's an expertise that no other hero really has, and in which she can shine since she doesn't really have a secret ID.

But beyond that? It isn't just about 'an occupation' so much as a demonstration of super-competence in some area. I also like the direction they're going in the movies - she speaks hundreds of languages, is highly educated and trained in strategy/warfare, history and magical lore (she narrates the story of Steppenwolf), and she holds what seems to be a curator/art restoration position at the Louvre (top in the field). I don't need to see job-related storylines, but something where others turn to her for knowledge/assistance.

I honestly do not recall a single time since nu52, with the notable exception of Metal, where anyone has turned to Diana for leadership/expertise/guidance in anything. She's the daughter of a god but with no knowledge/skill in magic or magically related things, she's from an ancient and immortal culture but hasn't demonstrated any knowledge of languages or history, and she's from a warrior culture but shows no skill at warfare or tactics.

[The Dying Detective]

Magical or enchanted items would work (especially since DC established that there's a magical black market that Batman can access). Bullets are just so common and so mundane and, as seen in JL, downright crippling to her that it's gotten silly.

I'm absolutely for a weakness. I just think this one is long past its time just as it is for pretty much every single other superhero in the DCU who has moved past the fear of regular guns.

As to the job? The current JL storyline is a perfect example of where an ambassador/diplomat could move center stage as this multi-arc storyline is all about public perception and relations between heroes and the public. However, I understand what you're saying. The thing is, I don't think you need diplomatic/ambassadorial storylines anymore than you need constant news storylines for Superman. It's just something he knows and is good at.

But if you go the Ambassador/Diplomat route? She becomes the peace maker. Take the stupid fight between her and Green Lantern at the beginning of Nu52 where Batman intervenes? That should have been a fight between two others where *Diana* intervenes. There are plenty of opportunities where she can be shown as the compassionate/reasonable person who helps others work things out or who interfaces with agencies/governments (being pan-lingual)/other heroes/villains, what have you. It's not flashy, but it's an expertise that no other hero really has, and in which she can shine since she doesn't really have a secret ID.

But beyond that? It isn't just about 'an occupation' so much as a demonstration of super-competence in some area. I also like the direction they're going in the movies - she speaks hundreds of languages, is highly educated and trained in strategy/warfare, history and magical lore (she narrates the story of Steppenwolf), and she holds what seems to be a curator/art restoration position at the Louvre (top in the field). I don't need to see job-related storylines, but something where others turn to her for knowledge/assistance.

I honestly do not recall a single time since nu52, with the notable exception of Metal, where anyone has turned to Diana for leadership/expertise/guidance in anything. She's the daughter of a god but with no knowledge/skill in magic or magically related things, she's from an ancient and immortal culture but hasn't demonstrated any knowledge of languages or history, and she's from a warrior culture but shows no skill at warfare or tactics.

Yeah but a more well defined source of magic should be used to hurt Diana that way it's a more accessible weakness for those who don't use magic often. Too bad Christopher Priest didn't think of that because if he did use her skill at diplomacy the problem would not have dragged on for too long. And the League's reputation would be saved. But to be franks a lot of people feel like Priest is jobbing the entire League in this story not just Diana. If it's expertise you want well you are probably going to get it during Justice League Dark since Diana is going to lead the team. As far as tactics go Diana did use her head in the fight against villain Johnny Sorrow in Justice League vs Suicide squad where she references Medusa as she used her bracelets to make him see himself and banish him into his own mask. That's one instance I know where Diana used tactics since the New 52. Again it boils down to consistency as you said because a lot of writers tend to ignore whatever skills she has. And she is being sued as diplomat in the Brave and the Bold story. As much as one resents it Diana did speak of the legends of Hercules early in the Robinson run showing some knowledge. So it's not like all writers even the worse ones treat her like a complete moron or outright ignore any knowledge she may have. But to be quite frank a lot of the things she can do any other League member can do which in it's own right creates a problem as most League members tend to have nearly the same skills. It's mainly their powers that set them apart.

[AmiMizuno]

The thing is for writers who write her weakness to magic don’t just give people who don’t know how to use magic. Then we get Batman who doesn’t know magic beating Circe. Yes it can be someone who isn’t a magic user but understand magic enough. Diana’s bracelets have long since served many different functions. Both defensive and offensive. What’s wrong with her suing. It to Ava expropriation ? Golden age it was to hide her beresk mode which does come back from time to time. Like in the new 52 which was her God mode. I mean with Dc they have stated many times when it comes to reflexes Diana is faster than Superman. Meaning she can quickly go around deflecting bracelets but anyone. Her bracelets can created a sound wave a bigger shield. Summoning weapons in new 52. I honestly don’t mind if it was used for summoning weapons again.


I mean do your u drying detective want the bracelets gone?

[Powerboy]

Good points that some characters have gotten tremendous buildups. Batman has gone from his Silver Age incarnation where he was a great detective and good in a fight but multiple opponents were a threat and he could take care of a gun if he threw a batarang but not if several people got the drop on him to a blur speed moving submachine gun dodger who can snap trees in two with a kick.

Green Lantern, whose powers are near-cosmic when the writer doesn't ignore them, has lost and refound the weakness to yellow. I'm not sure of the current status. But villains really should be able to exploit that weakness to the point a GL is useless and it really needs to go.

Superman has fluctuated by writer. If he's about the same power level as everybody else, the kryptonite needs to go because it was created for a time when he was more powerful than everybody else and keeping it around now is just giving him a glaring weakness when the reason for that weakness is long gone.

For Wonder Woman, the weakness to bullets is likewise something that should be long gone. The power scale of all characters has grown so much since the earliest days when criminals with guns were the main opponents. Having the bracelets is fine because they serve other purposes but bullets shouldn't have the slightest effect on her. She took a punch from Superman that threw her across the solar system and has survived nuclear explosions.