Avengers #688

[Omegarogue]

Are you sure?

Rogue possesses Wonder Man strength and wasn’t frozen.

That's true, Rogue is much stronger than Colossus and Sunspot lol, which I do not even think is at Frenzy's level.

[davew128]

Roberto not in his normal levels does not reach Class 80, I doubt very much that unleashed is a class 100, he has no feats of strength to support this.

When he was younger, he was Class 10. Now as an adult no doubt stronger but even then an enhancing his power, should be nowhere near strong enough (and remember no level of invulnerability) to really aid Hercules doing this. You need someone in that 100+ class. With Thor and Hulk unavailable, Wonder Man would have been the logical choice if he wasn't being used as a punching bag by Challenger. She-Hulk could have done it as well. Berto? Sorry, not seeing it.

[mugiwara]

I don't know how you can make rules about how powerful Sunspot should be.
His power is going berserk, so all bets are off and he can be as strong as the story needs him to be.

[Omegarogue]

When he was younger, he was Class 10. Now as an adult no doubt stronger but even then an enhancing his power, should be nowhere near strong enough (and remember no level of invulnerability) to really aid Hercules doing this. You need someone in that 100+ class. With Thor and Hulk unavailable, Wonder Man would have been the logical choice if he wasn't being used as a punching bag by Challenger. She-Hulk could have done it as well. Berto? Sorry, not seeing it.

Or Rogue that is a class 100 ++ too.

But I agree, it was a bit absurd that said Roberto did, when he has nothing to sustain it, because you know Rogue and Namor are the strongest physical mutants right now, from there come Gentle and Colossus, then Frenzy, and afterwards from here everything is debatable.

Roberto has a very high self-esteem, but he can not be more wrong XD.

[davew128]

I don't know how you can make rules about how powerful Sunspot should be.
His power is going berserk, so all bets are off and he can be as strong as the story needs him to be.

His power is fueled by solar energy. Right now Earth has no nearby star. He's never shown solar powered strength in the same league as even Colossus, let alone Hercules. Berserk powers doesn't mean the story has to make no sense whatsoever.

[Omegarogue]

His power is fueled by solar energy. Right now Earth has no nearby star. He's never shown solar powered strength in the same league as even Colossus, let alone Hercules. Berserk powers doesn't mean the story has to make no sense whatsoever.

That's right, but the few who believe that, have no arguments, just say it because Roberto says so? that's ridiculous because feats of strength, like those that have namor or Rogue because he does not have them.

And as you say Roberto ni siqueira is in the Colossus league.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

LOL still with this?

The Earth is teleported to another place, but THIS is the thing that's unbelievable? Especially right after the storyline with the High Evolutionary where it was being merged with another Earth.

[krazijoe]

LOL still with this?

The Earth is teleported to another place, but THIS is the thing that's unbelievable? Especially right after the storyline with the High Evolutionary where it was being merged with another Earth.

Well yeah, because changing a major character to fit a plot point is crappy writing and should be called out.

[davew128]

LOL still with this?

The Earth is teleported to another place, but THIS is the thing that's unbelievable? Especially right after the storyline with the High Evolutionary where it was being merged with another Earth.

Things that don't make sense from normal physics can be explained away when dealing with cosmic level beings such as the Elders and to a lesser extent High Evolutionary. We've seen stuff like this before from Collector and Grandmaster. Its fantastical but internally consistent in the story.

[mugiwara]

The terrigen infection changed how Sunspot's powers work. It changed his LIMITS.
It's not that hard.
It's comics "science", it's not more ridiculous than Rogue getting the powers of a man made of ionic energy or Quicksilver losing himself into the Speedforce.
You're all rather mad that FOR ONCE it's not one of your overexposed characters who gets to do something impressive.

[mikeb]

Let's remind everyone of the rundown eh?

Falcon - his solo's cancelled at #8, so limbo after that issue.
Thor - killed off in Mighty Thor #705.
Hercules - limbo.
Wasp - moved to Champions. Officially joined in #16, but has been appearing since #13. Also has a mini-series with Scott Lang Ant-Man.
Spider-Man - has four other books.
Vision - seemingly destroyed.

Rogue - moved to X-Men Gold.
Quicksilver - has a mini-series.
Doctor Voodoo - limbo.
Human Torch - returning to Fantastic Four and is also in Marvel 2-in-One.
Scarlet Witch - limbo.
Beast - Astonishing X-Men.
Wonder Man - limbo.
Synapse - limbo.
Wasp - has a one-shot with Scott Lang. After that, limbo.

Sunspot - limbo.
Cannonball - limbo.
Squirrel Girl - has a solo.
Iron Patriot - armor destroyed, but has already been seen in a new one in Invincible Iron Man.
Enigma - depowered.
Red Hulk - depowered.

Voyager - limbo.
Lightning - limbo.

So, does this mean all of these who are not dead/depowered are now inactive or reserve Avengers? Once an Avenger, always an Avenger? Meaning any or all of them could become Avengers again at some future date?

[Nomads1]

Let's remind everyone of the rundown eh?

Falcon - his solo's cancelled at #8, so limbo after that issue.
Thor - killed off in Mighty Thor #705.
Hercules - limbo.
Wasp - moved to Champions. Officially joined in #16, but has been appearing since #13. Also has a mini-series with Scott Lang Ant-Man.
Spider-Man - has four other books.
Vision - seemingly destroyed.

Rogue - moved to X-Men Gold.
Quicksilver - has a mini-series.
Doctor Voodoo - limbo.
Human Torch - returning to Fantastic Four and is also in Marvel 2-in-One.
Scarlet Witch - limbo.
Beast - Astonishing X-Men.
Wonder Man - limbo.
Synapse - limbo.
Wasp - has a one-shot with Scott Lang. After that, limbo.

Sunspot - limbo.
Cannonball - limbo.
Squirrel Girl - has a solo.
Iron Patriot - armor destroyed, but has already been seen in a new one in Invincible Iron Man.
Enigma - depowered.
Red Hulk - depowered.

Voyager - limbo.
Lightning - limbo.

The ones in bold are the ones I'm most sad to see in limbo. They deserve so much more.

Peace

[mace11]

Not really, Rogue and Namor are class 100 +++ in their normal mode, and both can continue to increase their strength, Namor being wet, and Rogue by the latent ionic energy.

Rogue and Namor >> Gentle => Colossus >> Frenzy> Sinspot.

Roberto not in his normal levels does not reach Class 80, I doubt very much that unleashed is a class 100, he has no feats of strength to support this.

It was said recently in one of x-men red issues that Gentle has or could have hulk like strength.So he class 100 up to incalculable strength i think.

In the recent issue of the avengers sunspot now has hulk like strength too.Just read it for yourself.
He now as incalculable strength.
Sunspot is now stronger then namor,rogue and colossus.
Sunspot is stronger then frenzy.


Gentle

Strength level
Variable, up to Class 100; It was stated that at his peak, he could go toe-to-toe with the Hulk, and that he was one of the strongest mutants the world had seen.

Supehuman Durability/Density:

Nezhno's body is very tough, he is able to withstand high atmospheric pressure, point-blank shot, Cyclops' optic blast and Sentinel's laser blast. His durability apparently increased even more by his vibranium tattoos.[citation needed] It was stated that at his peak, he could go toe-to-toe with the Hulk.

Namor

Class 75-100. (This is only for comparison between characters, and not to be taken remotely literally.)

He has been seen several times lifting thousands of tons without effort.

Rogue currently

Wonder Man Powers: Currently, Rogue seemingly still retains some of Wonder Man powers & abilities even though he has been released from her body, possibly permanently.

# Superhuman Strength: Possesses vast superhuman strength, the limits of which aren't known, and she is listed as Class 100. Her strength extends into her legs, as she is capable of superhuman leaps covering several hundred feet.

Colossus

* Superhuman Strength: After transforming into his armored state, Colossus possesses vast superhuman strength. As a teenager, he was sufficiently strong enough to be listed as a class 70. (This scale is only for comparisons between characters, and should not remotely be taken literally). However, as a fully mature adult, his strength has increased to the point that he is listed at exactly class 100.

Exactly class 100, formerly class 70. Also even without transforming into his metal form, Piotr possesses the natural peak human level of a human man of his age, height, weight and build who engages in regular extensive exercise, as a result he can lift up to twice his body weight.

Frenzy

# Superhuman Strength: Frenzy is superhumanly strong and she possesses sufficient physical strength to lift at least 10 tons, and perhaps more, as she has been noted going toe-to-toe with such notably superhumanly strong beings such as She-Hulk.

Sunspot

# Enhanced Strength: When Sunspots cells are powered by solar energy he has the superhuman ability to augment his physical strength. The original limits of his strength was that of 2 tons. Since then however his strength has increased to 50 tons.

Enhanced Strength: When Sunspots cells are powered by solar energy he has the superhuman ability to augment his physical strength. The original limits of his strength was that of 25 tons. Since then however his strength has increased to 50 tons. Before his super human strength could only be accessed when he was in his solar powered form but Roberto has been seen using his strength when out of his darkened form. The limits as to how much strength he is able to access outside of this form are unknown.

Note- recently sunspot has become stronger.He now has hulk like strength.

# Incalculable: in excess of 100 tons
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Categor...lable_Strength

# Superhuman: 75-100 ton range
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Categor..._ton)_Strength

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Power_Grid#Strength:

[Digifiend]

The ones in bold are the ones I'm most sad to see in limbo. They deserve so much more.

Peace

Yeah, and they missed an opportunity recently. Shredded Man, Synapse's grandfather, showed up in X-Men Gold. The team that fought him included Rogue, and she didn't think to bring Emily in? Just because she's not a mutant?

[JKtheMac]

Well yeah, because changing a major character to fit a plot point is crappy writing and should be called out.

Let's have some context here. This story overall has not been 'crappy writing' by any stretch. This is the very model of a solidly written superhero book.

You are implying this specific issue is changing a character. That isn't technically true. The whole history of Sunspot has seen an increase in his powers. Recently also. It isn't as if the most recent writer of his character wasn't sitting at the table when this was being written, and he probably penned this.

You are suggesting everything a character says about themselves is inherently true and unambiguous. Again that isn't true. How many times has Hulk proclaimed himself to be the strongest, and yet we all know there are stronger characters out there by specific definitions and in specific circumstances. Do we want to grade characters in this way? I know lots do, but I certainly don't. There will come a story when this will be tested in a way that contradicts this but it will again be very specific. Its a trope of the genre.

You are suggesting that this character couldn't do what he does in the story and yet even as the task is called out as very difficult and compared to some very difficult things, it isn't specified exactly, so there is a large grey area that can accommodate multiple interpretations. Again this ambiguity and science-speak, as well as exaggeration or superlative language is part of he genre. It has been there since day one.

This scene is supposed to build suspense, while spotlighting specific characters, nothing more. 'This will take superlative strength but I am your guy' with an implied 'hopefully'.