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  1. #136
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    What annoyed me was that Supergirl was killed, then wiped out of existence. Later we find out that Paul Levitz wanted to save her and make her a full time Legionnaire in the 30th Century but was turned down.

    Yet, John Byrne creates Supergirl Matrix!!?? It was so insulting to Kara fans like myself.
    DC wanted to make Kal-El the only survivor of Krypton post COIE. Levitz's plan went against that but Byrne's story did not. It may not have been good or what we wanted, but it was consistent.

  2. #137
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Thanks.
    It would essentially tie Superman back into the Legion mythos, keep everything from pre-5YL canon, while simultaneously introducing new readers to the world by having Superman investigate who they were, what happened to them and have him act as the catalyst in bringing the team back together.
    Forgive me for my lack of Legion knowledge, but what's partciularly wrong with having the Legion of Superheroes continue after the events of 'Five Years Later' ? Why does every Legion purist who wishes for DC to recognize the original Legion of Superheroes continuity want the 'Five Years Later' era to be forgotten as if it never happened or it was a mere Elseworlds tale? I haven't read much of the aforementioned fourth volume of Legion of Superheroes, to be honest with you, but from what I have read, it is extremely exceptional, almost among the lines of something like Dark Knight Returns, or Mike Grell's Green Arrow. What is truly so truly abhorrent about that run for it to be considered as infamous and divisive as it is percieved as?

  3. #138
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Speaking only for myself, I have said that I want to see the Legion pick up from that era - not because I hated the 5YL Legion - those are among my favorite stories of all time. However, that felt like such a complete story that by the Zero Hour hit, it felt like an ending. And also, it started out amazing and ended ... not so great. It had taken so many of the characters so far afield from where they started and where had lived for so long that it was a mess. There were also the clone Legionnaires running around in the same universe as the original Legion, which would be a problem if one were to continue from where that left off. I am again speaking for myself, but if one were to continue the Legion from a point in Legion history where they were at their best and still offered a platform for more stories that were still in the vein of the stories that people loved the most, that would be a good place to pick up from - especially since the 5YL legion literally left a huge gap between series, creating a natural breaking point.

  4. #139
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    Forgive me for my lack of Legion knowledge, but what's partciularly wrong with having the Legion of Superheroes continue after the events of 'Five Years Later' ? Why does every Legion purist who wishes for DC to recognize the original Legion of Superheroes continuity want the 'Five Years Later' era to be forgotten as if it never happened or it was a mere Elseworlds tale? I haven't read much of the aforementioned fourth volume of Legion of Superheroes, to be honest with you, but from what I have read, it is extremely exceptional, almost among the lines of something like Dark Knight Returns, or Mike Grell's Green Arrow. What is truly so truly abhorrent about that run for it to be considered as infamous and divisive as it is percieved as?
    The loss of the planet Earth was probably the biggest reason in my opinion to keep it out of canon.

    We also had the concept rebooted a few times and generally the focus is on a team that's less developed than the five years later timing. More married and retired members and the messiness of the SW6 duplicates makes fitting that run into canon difficult. I liked the run a lot, but I can see where it doesn't quite fit in.

  5. #140
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    Although Levitz had to change some things or just not make mention of them in the late '80s run, the Legion was pretty much in continuity with his earlier Legion stories and somewhat with the classic Legion. And even with the five year gap, TMK would have been in the same continuity, but a few issues into that run they had to change their continuity, because they were getting pressure from the Superman books to remove anything at all related to Superman from their book. So they had to keep changing what they had actually planned for the comic. This was very frustrating for me as a reader, because the continuity kept flipping from what it had been in issue 1 of the new run.

    From that standpoint, I don't conside most of 5YL to be in the same continuity as the previouse Legion. And the Magic Wars could be a cut-off point where another book resumes. We never really got to see what happened there--the five year gap could have filled in what had happened but because of changing continuity it couldn't really do that. I was kind of on board with the TMK run, in that I wanted to see the Legion move forward. I just thought some of their changes made that Legion so different it was hard to see how they were the same characters.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    Forgive me for my lack of Legion knowledge, but what's partciularly wrong with having the Legion of Superheroes continue after the events of 'Five Years Later' ? Why does every Legion purist who wishes for DC to recognize the original Legion of Superheroes continuity want the 'Five Years Later' era to be forgotten as if it never happened or it was a mere Elseworlds tale? I haven't read much of the aforementioned fourth volume of Legion of Superheroes, to be honest with you, but from what I have read, it is extremely exceptional, almost among the lines of something like Dark Knight Returns, or Mike Grell's Green Arrow. What is truly so truly abhorrent about that run for it to be considered as infamous and divisive as it is percieved as?
    For me personally, while I can appreciate the great writing of that period, too much happened to specific Legionnaires that I didn't like.

    You have Blok blown to bits, Lightning Lad actually being Proty, Violet with a lost eye and leg, Sun Boy becoming a human furnace, Timberwolf as a furball, etc... Pretty dreary IMO. I want a happier Legion. Not necessarily a utopia or problem free, but much happier than 5YL.

  7. #142
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    I love the 5YL era, but I don't want it in continuity. To me the 5YL run is almost the "Vertigo" version of the Legion, and in fact I think if Vertigo had been a thing when this book was coming out it would have been under the Vertigo imprint.

    My biggest thing is as a huge fan of the 70's and 80's additions to the team those characters got the shaft in the 5YL era. Wildfire and Blok dead. Dawnstar had her wings chopped off and her body taken over by Bounty. Timberwolf was mutated first into a big mute monster and then a dumb looking new form.

  8. #143
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Timberwolf as a furball
    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Timberwolf was mutated first into a big mute monster and then a dumb looking new form.
    Furball sucked.

  9. #144
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    Speaking of Supergirl..will we ever see Laurel Kent come back in the DCU?

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaxander12 View Post
    Speaking of Supergirl..will we ever see Laurel Kent come back in the DCU?
    Did you mean Laurel Gand or Laurel Kent. It was a long time ago, but I think Laurel Kent turned out to be a Manhunter.


  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Did you mean Laurel Gand or Laurel Kent. It was a long time ago, but I think Laurel Kent turned out to be a Manhunter.
    If some writer wanted to use the character again in the future, it would be simple enough to say that the Manhunter lied, and was impersonating someone real whom it had kidnapped and replaced (perhaps after she got shot by a Kryptonite bullet, in an earlier story?), and her body was found in cryo-sleep in it's old hidden base (kept alive for material to fool gene-scanners and stuff).

    Or something whackier. It's comics, after all.

    That said, we'd have to have a Legion book, with characters like Sun Boy and Polar Boy and Shadow Lass again, before they would even consider tertiary characters like Laurel Kent or Rond Vidar or the Heroes of Lallor. I love the character of Laurel Kent, a living legacy of the Man of Steel, but there's an entire universe of Legion characters I'd also want to see.

  12. #147
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    Purely for my own satisfaction I'd like to bring the Superman of 2965 into the same continuity as the Legion. Edmond Hamilton wrote both in 1965 for Mort Weisinger and yet never tried to make the two fit togsther in the same timeline. E. Nelson Bridwell changed the date to 2465 to resolve the issue, when he reprinted those stories in the 1970s but I'd like to keep the original date.

    If you work out the math, you soon realize that there's probably millions of people in the United Planets who have some Kryptonian genes by the 30th century. So it's possible there are many individuals with some but not all of the abilities--like with Laurel Kent--while others are at full Superman level.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Purely for my own satisfaction I'd like to bring the Superman of 2965 into the same continuity as the Legion. Edmond Hamilton wrote both in 1965 for Mort Weisinger and yet never tried to make the two fit togsther in the same timeline. E. Nelson Bridwell changed the date to 2465 to resolve the issue, when he reprinted those stories in the 1970s but I'd like to keep the original date.

    If you work out the math, you soon realize that there's probably millions of people in the United Planets who have some Kryptonian genes by the 30th century. So it's possible there are many individuals with some but not all of the abilities--like with Laurel Kent--while others are at full Superman level.
    Oh yeah, I'd love a 'House of El' group based on people descended from the various Kryptonians (and Daxamites) who have hung around Earth for the last 1000 years. They are hardly Genghis Khan, and aren't likely to have hundreds of kids, but there are a fair number of them, and it's been 40-ish generations... (Even with 1.5 kids each, there should be thousands of people with genes from Kal, Kon, Kara, etc. by the 31st century, whether those people ever had biological children or just got cloned by Luthor or whatever!

  14. #149
    OUTRAGEOUS!! Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I love the 5YL era, but I don't want it in continuity. To me the 5YL run is almost the "Vertigo" version of the Legion, and in fact I think if Vertigo had been a thing when this book was coming out it would have been under the Vertigo imprint.

    My biggest thing is as a huge fan of the 70's and 80's additions to the team those characters got the shaft in the 5YL era. Wildfire and Blok dead. Dawnstar had her wings chopped off and her body taken over by Bounty. Timberwolf was mutated first into a big mute monster and then a dumb looking new form.
    The 5YL Legion was the Dark Knight version of the Legion. Very much a product of its times,all gloom and depressing. You can argue than the stories were good or bad or if you like it or not, but essentially this version was against everything the legion represented as a title: the legion was about optimism, a better tomorrow, were the humanity had reached the stars and lived amazing adventures. The 5YL was something more cyberpunk, were depiste the advances in technology, life was horrible.
    "Never assign to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity or ignorance."

    "Great stories will always return to their original forms"

    "Nobody is more dangerous than he who imagines himself pure in heart; for his purity, by definition, is unassailable." James Baldwin

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Oh yeah, I'd love a 'House of El' group based on people descended from the various Kryptonians (and Daxamites) who have hung around Earth for the last 1000 years. They are hardly Genghis Khan, and aren't likely to have hundreds of kids, but there are a fair number of them, and it's been 40-ish generations... (Even with 1.5 kids each, there should be thousands of people with genes from Kal, Kon, Kara, etc. by the 31st century, whether those people ever had biological children or just got cloned by Luthor or whatever!
    Not necesarily a huge family, but maybe the members of the clan El are working undercover or in other places instead earth.
    "Never assign to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity or ignorance."

    "Great stories will always return to their original forms"

    "Nobody is more dangerous than he who imagines himself pure in heart; for his purity, by definition, is unassailable." James Baldwin

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