Legion Of Super Heroes fans - what would you like in a new book?

[Lee Stone]

You mean typical Johns form, not typical DC form. Any huge departures from whatever Johns intended to come out of Doomsday Clock, if necessary, will be his fault, not the rest of DC and Bendis's fault. If the ending of Watchmen 2 has to be rewritten to accommodate writers who can actually get their stuff done on time with these characters instead of leaving them languishing in development hell for 2 years, that's just the breaks.

I mean like the ending of Crisis on Infinite Earths, the ending of Zero Hour, the ending of Flashpoint, how the post-Crisis DCU was changed to accommodate Byrne's reboot of Superman...

Matter of fact, Bendis on Superman could do to post-Rebirth DCU what Byrne on Superman did to post-Crisis DCU.

[Sacred Knight]

Blaming the right guy in one instance does not mean I absolve DC as a whole unit of blame in past instances of screw ups.

Bottom line is Johns and Fabok couldn't get their story done on time. A year's delay is not chump change. No one to blame but them. That said I'm not anticipating Bendis getting to overrule Legion stuff anyway. All signs are indeed pointing that the Legion and JSA will remain in limbo till the Watchmen story is done since they figure so much in it. Which to me is being too kind as it is. After the surprise arrival of Bendis though, it doesn't seem they were willing to let Superman languish in the same way. Who knows if they would have had this been any other year but a landmark year for Superman. But either way, I'm thankful Superman is out of Johns' hands.

[Ascended]

Honor Adventure 247 by making the Legion's first year 3247. It's centuries in the future. what difference could there really be between 3018 and 3247? Then advance time as fast or as slowly as you want.

I like the idea of honoring Adventure 247, but what difference does a couple centuries make? Quite a bit. Take a look at what the world looked like in 1818 compared to now. Of course, since its a fictional future it can look like anything the writers want it to.....but you get my meaning.

For myself.....I'm not actually that concerned about the particulars of the roster, or even the continuity. What I'm more concerned about are the themes, tones, and general approach.

I don't think the "superheroes in the future" concept entirely works as we've seen it presented. Much of the technology seen in the 30/31th centuries isn't very impressive when compared to the stuff modern day heroes have. Sure, in the future everyone has a flying car, not just Batman and Blue Beetle. But since the stories don't focus on the regular people, that distinction doesn't amount to very much. And I don't think "superheroes in space" offers a whole lot of unique options either when we've got those in the present day, with more popular franchises like Green Lantern, Superman, etc.

So basically all the Legion ends up looking like is a teen team set in space. It's fun. But it doesn't exactly stand out, and the troubles of connecting the team to big events happening in the wider (present day) DCU is a handicap. Not a insurmountable handicap, but a handicap nonetheless.

And I think the idea of putting them in the present day is even worse. That just takes away the one thing that is somewhat unique and interesting about the Legion. No, the problem isn't them being in the future, it's that the future isn't very interesting.

So I suggest leaning heavily into the sci-fi aspects of the Legion and it's setting, and downplaying the "teen superhero team" angle, since we've got plenty of Titans and Challengers running around already.

Make the future a strange and fantastic place that is very different from what we see in the regular DCU, and make the technology astoundingly advanced; a kid's phone in the 31st century should put the most advanced Bat-computer to shame and embarrass the most advanced algorithms in the Fortress of Solitude. The high-end stuff that people like Brainiac 5 create should be infinitely beyond anything even the modern day Brainiac could imagine. And the culture and society of the future should be wildly different too; the America of the Legion's time should be as strange and alien to us as Thanagar or Krypton.

I think a Legion book should be more Star Wars than it is Teen Titans, and while it should still have teenagers with powers and costumes, the less it looks like a regular superhero title the better. I'd even shift the focus of the team away from "fighting evil" to something more post-modern. After a thousand years of heroism, started by the likes of DC's Trinity, what would heroism end up evolving into by the Legion's time? Certainly there'd still be similar threats (alien invasions and such) but I imagine there'd be a lot of differences too. That should be explored.

And I think the Legion really needs to connect more to the history of the DCU. DC 1 Million and Justice League 3K both went *way* overboard with the "It's the JLA, but in the future!" stuff, but the Legion would benefit a lot from having a resident Flash, Super-person, or Bat or whatever. I mean, we've had descendants of those families in the books before, and it's an element the Legion should employ a little more often, and in a more obvious way. Have XS become the Flash of her era, for example, instead of wearing a costume and having a codename that no one will identify with the Flash franchise. I think a young Clark Kent having adventures with the Legion (at least some of the time) is also an absolute must. The Legion exists because of Superman, and this not only helped elevate the Legion to popularity but became a staple of Clark's origin and had a huge impact on his worldview. Exploring these early years for Superman would help the Legion's sales quite a bit, I suspect. Maybe have a few of the long-lived or immortal characters in DC still around, too. Maybe Diana is the queen of Themyscria by the 31st century, but retired from active duty centuries before. Maybe Wally West's "spirit" is in the Speed Force and talks to XS. Maybe Tim Drake built an AI with his own personality coded into it, and now that program lives in the future's Internet. I think a few small details that show readers "this is the future the heroes built, and their impact is still obvious and strongly felt" would help the Legion feel more connected to the rest of DC.

And of course, time travelling to the past on a semi-regular basis should be a basic rule of thumb. Annual adventures, like the old JSA-JLA stories, should be a staple of the Legion.

[RepHope]

Don't get bogged down in continuity in the first arc, whatever you do DC. If you want to just start the LoSH without referencing past stories go right ahead.

[DevilBat66]

I just want Wildfire and Dawnstar.

[Thor-Ul]

If DC were to release a new monthly LSH comic, how would you like it to be written? Choose as many options as you want or add your own.

Let's see...

A) start the team over from scratch and have it closely resemble the original team's history
B) start the team over from scratch and re-write it's history. Perhaps with all new characters

That already was tried, twice before. Only will divide yet more the fanbase,already fragmented among those who like the Levitz Legion, the Giffen-Bierbaum FYL era, the post Zero hour, the Waid penned threeboot, the Johns Retroboot... . And what willbe now, Fourboot? And start from the beggining again is not the best slution. i would accept a year one/secret origin limited series retconning incomplete elements or adding ideas, por not an starover again from the beggining. Also any return to any of those eras would had to include information of what happened meanwhile we didn't see it,something than Geoff johns is an expert. Do you wonder why suddendly xenophobia was so exacerbated in the 30th (31st) century? Read Superman: Secret Origin. It was a new element added to justify the exploration of the future.

C) include deceased heroes such as Triplicate Girl, Invisible Kid I, Ferro Lad, Chemical King, Karate Kid, etc...

Keep the defunct heroes dead. If you want create new characters to keep the legacy alive, (which could be a plus, you could ad more diversity characters without need a extreme complex explanation) with the same powers but don't abuse the resurrection. Yes, i know, in a medium where ressurections happens everyday that is a lot to ask for.

D) continue where Crisis On Infinite Earths left off
E) continue where Zero Hour left off

That bridge was burned after Legion of Three Worlds. That was an apotheosic effort to make all the then existent versions f the characters work together. But the impulso of that return was a missed oportunity. Go back only will alienate a lot of other readers fan of the different eras as I said before. And I must add I liked more the post Zero Hour legion, but go back is not the best solution.

F) pick up right where Paul Levitz's most current Legion left off

Yes, that could be the best solution, even if that was not the best of Levitz. But there is a lot to be rewritten about.

G) pick up where Superman and The Legion left off

Which exactly is this, I'm lost.You mean the beggining of retroboot? Or the Adventures of Nuperman against Vyndxtvx? The Legion (or at least, a Legion) had certain participation in that story. In any case,see what I write before.

H) something else

Well yes. I would go to Justice League United with the Infinitus Saga. In that story, a lot of character of the legion from different continuities, appeared. (most probably because the editor didn't make his job) I really would like to see several characters from those lines integrated. Maybe making it part of the mystery of people popping from alternate universes in the main reality.


Also, and this is a personal opinion, I think gret part of the attractive of the legion is also part of his actual problem and it is that version of the future is a to much 50s future. I like the idea of a future utopia, but it must be a contemporary idea of utopia, more along the present day perceptions. I'm oppose to the transfrmation on a dystopy in the line of FYL, but that element of nostalgia is working against the develompment ot the stories. I also not talking about erasing everything and rewrite it, but of a subtle, step by step, leave behind the 50s ideas and transforming it in a more modern take on the characters. For example, ideas like Saturn girl (and titanians) using the saturn emblem to warn other people could sound imaginative in the past, but it does not sound good to modern audiences. Yes, it have logic inside their context, it is part of their history, but those are still questionable politics which need to be adressed.
But I suppose, hope really, tha Johns already have a plan, considering the events of Doomsday Clock.

If only they were publishing the books more faster...

[Agent Z]

I would like to pretend that some of the egregious bone-headed stuff from that last run was ignored. In the first issue or two, Titan is blown up and Saturn Girl is shown trying to stop a falling pillar from crushing people and smashing through a window with telekinesis, despite her not being Jean Grey and being 'only' a telepath, and not a telekinetic. Then in Legion Lost, not only can Timber Wolf regenerate and track by scent, but now he has claws, because apparently he's now a Wolverine knock-off. Star Boy and Sun Boy's deaths were just bad. Phantom Girl's inner monologue about how Sun Boy's death *made her look bad* as Legion Leader, and then abandoning the team to phase home to Bgtzl was just horrible writing for a character who was the fourth or fifth Legionnaire.

That said, some of the changes I did not mind. Tyroc being a sound manipulator instead of having 'magic shouts' that do random stuff like teleport, control winds and set stuff on fire, was a neat tweak to the character and made him more usable, IMO, than somebody with arbitrary powers.

It probably would be easier to just start at the post-Crisis Legion, and kind of forget most of what has happened since, cherry-picking stuff to include, like Chameleon Girl, Night Girl and perhaps Infectious Lass (who referred to herself as a Legionnaire before she was eaten by rats in the 21st century or whatever lamearse nonsense happened to her) being Legionnaires. I kind of like the new kids introduced in Adventure (Dragonwing, Chemical Kid, Variable Lad, Gravity Kid and Glorith), but they aren't, IMO, ready for prime-time Legionnaire status. Nor was Harmonia Li, who seemed bizarre in execution. (A millennias-old Chinese elementalist who controls the four *European* elements of air, earth, fire and water, and not the five *Chinese* elements of earth, fire, metal, water and wood? I don't get it...)

I also wouldn't mind seeing at least some of the Reboot characters lying around folded into a larger Legion. Gates and XS kind of / sort of have already been, at various times, but allowing some of the others to make it out of limbo, like Kid Quantum II, Dragonmage and Shikari, etc. could be interesting and add some diversity organically, rather than inventing a bunch of new diverse Legionnaires.

Timber Wolf always had these abilities from what I've read.

[Sutekh]

Don't get bogged down in continuity in the first arc, whatever you do DC. If you want to just start the LoSH without referencing past stories go right ahead.

Probably good advice, and even better if the Legion doesn't get bogged down in 1000 year old continuity. I'm fine, for instance, with them mentioning a 31st century Tamaran or Thanagar or Rann or whatever, even if those places have been destroyed two to five times in the 21st century alone (and, assuming DC comics continue to be published into the actual 31st century, will be 'destroyed' seventy or eighty more times...). Same with mentioning 'historical' details about the Speed Force or Amazons or Green Lantern Corps that may or may not have any bearing *at all* on the current state of those things in the 21st century. Maybe Atlantis is going to get blown up next week, in the past, but that doesn't mean that there can't be a place called Atlantis in the future. Maybe it's a theme park or historical recreation?

If there can be multiple inconsistent futures, I see no reason at all that the Legion can't have multiple inconsistent pasts.

"But Supertween's dead! She was smooshed by the Mega-Visor in the Endless Crisis Invasion Decimation!" "It's called time travel, noob. *Everybody* died back then. We brought her to hang out with us *before* she died, and she can hang out with us for literal decades, and we can send her back without a single memory of living a full life in the future before she 'dies'. And anyway, there's an infinite number of timelines in which she smooshed him first..."

[Sutekh]

Timber Wolf always had these abilities from what I've read.

Nah, his original powers were 'super-acrobatics' and super-strength. He predates Wolverine by ten years, and never had regeneration, never could track by scent, and never had claws.

Wikipedia mentions an exposure to a serum that gave him Wolverine-powers, but that's from another continuity entirely. AFAIK, 'Earth 1' (and Threeboot) Timber Wolf never got turned into 'Furball' or had those powers, that's entirely a Reboot thing, and is about as accurate as saying that Projectra was 'always a snake.'

[reni344]

As someone who wants to read the Legion but finds it really confusing I would like context for whatever history or run they decide to use. I would prefer a fresh start because the Legion's history is so confusing. I never knew quite where to start or what was in continuity or not.

[Restingvoice]

I never read Legion so I only know them as friends of Superboy from the future.

The main thing that deters me from reading it is because their story is set in the future meaning they are not affected by present conflict and I prioritize stories in the present.

So if the question is what kind of Legion book I want to read, it would be one where they are stuck in the present and has to go back to the future without changing too much of the past by solving the present conflict that plague the DCU. The more involved they are with the main plot of DCU the better.

[Jon Clark]

This approach makes sense and it will really fit with the LEGION definition like you said! Having them be an expansion unit like the military will open a ton of possibilities for all types of stories. Have the membership number be a mystery adds a whole other element of intrigue. Now if the Legion you're proposing is branched off on other worlds, do they operate independent of each other? What degree of autonomy they have?

My take is to keep the Earth-centered LSH as the starting point. So ultimately the team is taking it's orders from that particular team. But on a day-to-day basis each outpost would be making the calls themselves. If there was evidence of a large scale threat Legion HQ might coordinate a response involving multiple locations and even then they'd be conferring with the teams in those locations. If we were dealing with the Fatal Five terrorizing a single planet or system then the local team wouldn't need to wait for word from Earth to act. And in most cases the local team would be handling it and only contacting HQ if they needed major back-up or had a real complex issue with time to wait for an official resolution.

[Raijin]

As long as they don't make the book cheesy.

[WillieMorgan]

I never read Legion so I only know them as friends of Superboy from the future.

The main thing that deters me from reading it is because their story is set in the future meaning they are not affected by present conflict and I prioritize stories in the present.

So if the question is what kind of Legion book I want to read, it would be one where they are stuck in the present and has to go back to the future without changing too much of the past by solving the present conflict that plague the DCU. The more involved they are with the main plot of DCU the better.

There have been Legion spin-off titles that have actually done the whole 'separated from the rest of the Legion' thing. They were the Legion Lost titles, the second of which connected to the present day and had a similar premise to what you've pitched there.

The problem with this premise is, once we've got past the whole 'What a pickle we're in here Legionnaires. How do we interact with and escape from this barbaric age?' angle that the story started out with, it ended up running out of steam very quickly. Once the displaced Legion team acclimatised itself to the present day they became a little redundant. Both Legion Lost titles suffered from that same problem, particularly the second series, and then fizzled out.

I can understand fans favouring a Legion title that affects the modern day DCU. The teams connection to Superman/Superboy is a crucial part of Legion lore for me also. Thing is, once you separate them from their wonderfully constructed and texturally rich future setting a lot of the Legion magic tends to fade away. That's why some Legion fans are so opposed to a present day title.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I am by no means a big Legion fan, but wouldn't a Rebirth-style approach to continuity benefit this particular franchise quite a bit. Have the ripple effects Dr. Manhattan's time shenanigans merge all the various Legions into one that combines all the best elements while ignoring all the past mistakes.

None of the various versions of the LSH are without serious problems, but perhaps the strengths of them all can be wrapped up into one version with the broad strokes of the Legion's history and roster, but with all the new characters and improvements rolled in.