AQUAMAN - a film by James Wan

[Scott Taylor]

The problem with DC and Superman is that it peaked way ahead of its time. Everyone compares every Superman movie to the first two Donner films.

As much as I liked the Nolan trilogy, I don't consider it or the Burton film to be a true peak for the franchise in the same way Superman was back when.

[Jim Kelly]

AQUAMAN is pretty much everything I want in a super-hero movie. When I watched movies like MAN OF STEEL and BATMAN V SUPERMAN, i judged them to be good movies because the director accomplished what he set out to do. He may have made a few missteps in that effort, but I couldn't fault him for making the movie he wanted to make. However, those aren't the kind of movies I want from the big league DC super-heroes. As a movie, they're good, but as a super-hero movie, they're not my cup of tea. Even WONDER WOMAN, which is nearly perfect as a movie, is not exactly what I want a super-hero comic book movie to be.

If I want serious social dramas, there's a good supply of those. I can watch FIRST REFORMED or GET OUT. I don't need comic book super-hero movies to do what those movies do. I think the only reason we get these other kind of super-hero movies is because that's the genre that is currently the most successful at the box office, so if a writer wants to do a western, a romantic comedy, a self-reflexive experimental film, a war movie, a gangster picture, a domestic melodrama . . . then that writer tries to package his idea as a comic book movie. There are other genre elements in AQUAMAN but it comes closest to scratching my itch for straight ahead comic book super-heroes on screen.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

If I want serious social dramas, there's a good supply of those. I can watch FIRST REFORMED or GET OUT. I don't need comic book super-hero movies to do what those movies do. I think the only reason we get these other kind of super-hero movies is because that's the genre that is currently the most successful at the box office, so if a writer wants to do a western, a romantic comedy, a self-reflexive experimental film, a war movie, a gangster picture, a domestic melodrama . . . then that writer tries to package his idea as a comic book movie. There are other genre elements in AQUAMAN but it comes closest to scratching my itch for straight ahead comic book super-heroes on screen.

Some interesting thoughts there about writers packaging their ideas as superhero movies. A lot of Marvel moves have other genre elements in them like Captain America Winter Soldier had a spy movie interwoven in the plot, and Black Panther had a whole sequence in the casino where they were undercover that ended in a car chase. It felt like James Bond/Fast & Furious. Iron Man 3 had a bit of a buddy cop movie with extended time of Tony Stark out of the Iron Man armor (to the movie's detriment). Guardians of the Galaxy was like a comedy-scifi movie first, superhero movie second.

I suspect, in these cases and perhaps others people could mention, that it might have been the other way around. Maybe Feige wanted the MCU movies to appeal to people outside of comics fans, so he made sure to include elements from other popular genres that could fit comfortably within a superhero story. More like superhero movies packaged as other genres than other genres packaged as a superhero movie. So, Winter Soldier was a spy movie that just happened to star superheroes as its lead characters. The other movies included the other genres to make sure the movies didn't get too comic booky.

Of course, Marvel has done straight up comic book movies like the Avengers sub-franchise, but I would say that Aquaman was likely the least self-serious comic book movie with the fewest real world connections that I've seen maybe since the 4 original Batman movies. Atlantis and Burton-Schumacher Gotham City are completely hermetically sealed worlds that have their own distinctive designs, worldviews, and rules.

[Calighoula]

Of course, Marvel has done straight up comic book movies like the Avengers sub-franchise, but I would say that Aquaman was likely the least self-serious comic book movie with the fewest real world connections that I've seen maybe since the 4 original Batman movies. Atlantis and Burton-Schumacher Gotham City are completely hermetically sealed worlds that have their own distinctive designs, worldviews, and rules.

Definitely the biggest component of Aquaman's success: it's a comicbook movie with no apologies. Wan went for it (even Feige acknowledged that). We got discourse between the Brine King and Orm. We got the most neon short of another TRON sequel. And we got the legacy suit. And the only ones being salty are those being salty for salt's sake, like Rodrigo of RT.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Definitely the biggest component of Aquaman's success: it's a comicbook movie with no apologies. Wan went for it (even Feige acknowledged that). We got discourse between the Brine King and Orm. We got the most neon short of another TRON sequel. And we got the legacy suit. And the only ones being salty are those being salty for salt's sake, like Rodrigo of RT.

Yes, Feige spoke to MTV News on the Red Carpet at the Golden Globes on Jan 6. He said he saw Aquaman the day before.

Feige says:
“I went to see Aquaman last night and I really, really enjoyed it,” Feige told MTV on the red carpet for the Golden Globe Awards. “I’ve always supported [DC movies].”


Feige had previously said good things about Wonder Woman. The reality is that the DC-Marvel rivalry is more in the minds of the fans than in the Hollywood execs beyond the reality all movies from other studios are competition.

[Powerboy]

AQUAMAN is pretty much everything I want in a super-hero movie. When I watched movies like MAN OF STEEL and BATMAN V SUPERMAN, i judged them to be good movies because the director accomplished what he set out to do. He may have made a few missteps in that effort, but I couldn't fault him for making the movie he wanted to make. However, those aren't the kind of movies I want from the big league DC super-heroes. As a movie, they're good, but as a super-hero movie, they're not my cup of tea. Even WONDER WOMAN, which is nearly perfect as a movie, is not exactly what I want a super-hero comic book movie to be.

If I want serious social dramas, there's a good supply of those. I can watch FIRST REFORMED or GET OUT. I don't need comic book super-hero movies to do what those movies do. I think the only reason we get these other kind of super-hero movies is because that's the genre that is currently the most successful at the box office, so if a writer wants to do a western, a romantic comedy, a self-reflexive experimental film, a war movie, a gangster picture, a domestic melodrama . . . then that writer tries to package his idea as a comic book movie. There are other genre elements in AQUAMAN but it comes closest to scratching my itch for straight ahead comic book super-heroes on screen.

Nowadays, I think most comic books are themselves a combination of superhero stories and other types of stories and that's good in a way but I do think a great deal of the success of "Aquaman" is that it is almost 100% a superhero movie. There's a touch of environmental issues which I think would be disingenuous to completely ignore but they are so generic that only the most extreme person could claim the movie revolves around them.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Here's a pic of the Best Buy Steelbook edition of Aquaman.

[Marvelgirl]

Aquaman keeping The DECU afloat is a good notion for CBMs,competition is a healthy exercise, however DC needs to shift away from the Marvel copycat formula of fun goofy spectacles. DC needs to go back to Man of Steel type of films.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Aquaman keeping The DECU afloat is a good notion for CBMs,competition is a healthy exercise, however DC needs to shift away from the Marvel copycat formula of fun goofy spectacles. DC needs to go back to Man of Steel type of films.

I loved Man of Steel, but I know they ain't gonna do that.

As I said above, DC/Warners just needs to make sure that the tone of the movie is appropriate for the character. Some movies SHOULD be done in the Watchmen-style that Zach Snyder used for MOS and BvS, but some should not. And maybe MOS and BvS should NOT have been done in that tone in order to get more broad audience acceptance.

It's ok to me that superhero movies are fun and colorful. Maybe DC Films should start a Vertigo Films sub-brand and do the Zach Snyder stuff over there with lower budgets so there isn't a high level of financial pressure on the movie. There just seems to be a disconnect between "Watchmen-style" and "Summer Tentpole."

But, yeah, when they do a Sandman movie, don't have any Beyonce jokes like Dr. Strange.

[Marvelgirl]

I loved Man of Steel, but I know they ain't gonna do that.

As I said above, DC/Warners just needs to make sure that the tone of the movie is appropriate for the character. Some movies SHOULD be done in the Watchmen-style that Zach Snyder used for MOS and BvS, but some should not. And maybe MOS and BvS should NOT have been done in that tone in order to get more broad audience acceptance.


But, yeah, when they do a Sandman movie, don't have any Beyonce jokes like Dr. Strange.

I liked Man of Steel, I did not love it. Man of Steel was a very good concept given to the wrong person (Zack Snyder). The Backlash was overkill though.

It's ok to me that superhero movies are fun and colorful. Maybe DC Films should start a Vertigo Films sub-brand and do the Zach Snyder stuff over there with lower budgets so there isn't a high level of financial pressure on the movie. There just seems to be a disconnect between "Watchmen-style" and "Summer Tentpole."

I grew up in an era it was okay to have thought provoking and hard hitting films (X2, TDK, Watchmen) and not fear your movie will be snubbed because it was not fun and colourful or slammed as too preachy or called too grounded. the era we have now is laughable. Though as a marvel fan (not mcu fan), DC are the only people that can reset things right again. I just don't think Aquaman films are the chosen ones to do that.

[Jim Kelly]

I think there was a mood around the time of the Nolan Batman movies that a comic book movie had to have a message. If you just put a movie out there that was pure popcorn entertainment, people wouldn't come. But a movie with some grit to it, then okay, audiences would put up with the insane logic of super-heroes if it served a serious purpose. At least, that must have been the thinking at Warner Bros. So when they tried to do another Superman movie, they had to have some important message in the movie. This is the thing that occupied the Nolans when they were trying to come up with a reason for doing the Man of Steel.

AQUAMAN has a message in it, but what's up front are the comic book tropes. The message isn't there to support the movie's reason for being.

The thing is--and I might be inviting some push-back by saying so--I don't find even the best super-hero comic book is written on the level of a realistic novel. No matter how talented the writer, those comic books are written in a cornball way, with over the top language and bizarre scenarios. So why would anyone expect a super-hero movie to be different? Why are critics examining the dialogue and the plot logic as if this is a work of Hemingway or Dostoevsky? The movies are adapting a specific artform. Just as people accepted the hyperbolic nature of the great operas because that was integral to the performance, super-hero movies should be judged on their own terms.

And when they try to render the comic book stories in this serious way, it just calls attention to those elements that don't naturally fit into a understated reality.

But because Waner had success in the past with super-hero movies that were sombre in tone and asked serious philosophical and sociological questions--for the crtics that's what they expect DC super-hero movies to be. And if they aren't, then something must be wrong.

[Colossus1980]

The DCEU needs to emulate the XCU so the box office can be apathetic and looks like it comes from Netflix.

[Marvelgirl]

The DCEU needs to emulate the XCU so the box office can be apathetic and looks like it comes from Netflix.

DCEU should emulate XCU/DC movies, better to have a Logan/TDK than one of those cgi spoofy MCU movies. MCU billion dollar movies are spoofy entertainment that lacks the intellectual aspect of TDK or Man of steel, outside of the endless fights between superman and zod.

[Marvelgirl]

I think there was a mood around the time of the Nolan Batman movies that a comic book movie had to have a message. If you just put a movie out there that was pure popcorn entertainment, people wouldn't come. But a movie with some grit to it, then okay, audiences would put up with the insane logic of super-heroes if it served a serious purpose. At least, that must have been the thinking at Warner Bros. So when they tried to do another Superman movie, they had to have some important message in the movie. This is the thing that occupied the Nolans when they were trying to come up with a reason for doing the Man of Steel.

AQUAMAN has a message in it, but what's up front are the comic book tropes. The message isn't there to support the movie's reason for being.

The thing is--and I might be inviting some push-back by saying so--I don't find even the best super-hero comic book is written on the level of a realistic novel. No matter how talented the writer, those comic books are written in a cornball way, with over the top language and bizarre scenarios. So why would anyone expect a super-hero movie to be different? Why are critics examining the dialogue and the plot logic as if this is a work of Hemingway or Dostoevsky? The movies are adapting a specific artform. Just as people accepted the hyperbolic nature of the great operas because that was integral to the performance, super-hero movies should be judged on their own terms.

And when they try to render the comic book stories in this serious way, it just calls attention to those elements that don't naturally fit into a understated reality.

But because Waner had success in the past with super-hero movies that were sombre in tone and asked serious philosophical and sociological questions--for the crtics that's what they expect DC super-hero movies to be. And if they aren't, then something must be wrong.

Warner made the wrong choice to get Snyder. he is not a very good story teller. He could be one of those people who benefits from co-directing. X-men movies has addressed serious philosophical and sociological questions from many directors prospective each of those directors are more talented than Snyder.

Nolan was at the right place at the right time, he wouldn't be able to make the batman movies in this era of cinematic story telling superficiality. many people can't go 2 minutes without asking for cinematic callbacks.Warner should have fixed the problems of man of steel, not the change things entirely and become a marvel copycat. DCEU are still trying to find a balance. I agree superhero movies should be judge on their own terms, DCEU is judge too closely to marvel for coming behind.I still won't say the copycat was necessary. DC had the concept with man of steel, Snyder failed it. If George Miller directed Man of Steel, with the same script, he would have done a great job.

[Osiris-Rex]

Aquaman keeping The DECU afloat is a good notion for CBMs,competition is a healthy exercise, however DC needs to shift away from the Marvel copycat formula of fun goofy spectacles. DC needs to go back to Man of Steel type of films.

But I love fun and goofy superhero movies. Man of Steel is precisely the kind of movie that should have been fun and goofy. As should have been Superman Returns. Imagine how well they would have done if they were
done in the style of Aquaman. Superman should be that fun character that Aquaman was. I liked the Superman in Justice League a lot more than I did the Superman in Superman Returns or Man of Steel. The only character
that should be dark and somber is Batman. Superman should never be Batman.