Black Panther, Blue Marvel, and Captain Marvel: The answer to DC’s Trinity?

[Golden Guardian of Good]

The success of Ant-Man and Doctor Strange suggest you don’t need a mainstream following to produce a blockbuster. Their relative films made them household names, rather than their names being identiable enough to pull viewers into theaters. The MCU brand is enough to catch people’s attention, it’s up to the films themselves to keep it. Black Panther serves as another example, honestly. A lot more people know he who is now than they did before his film debuted.

Edit: I see a lot of people saying the Ultimates won’t happen, but if that’s the case, what’s the future of Monica Rambeau if the rumors of her appearing in the Captain Marvel film prove true?

Ant-Man, Black Panther and Doctor Strange are 10x more popular than Blue Marvel and has appeared in way more memorable stories than Blue Marvel. You can't compare Blue Marvel to them. Blue Marvel still has not been fully integrated into the Marvel U in comics. He still hasn't appeared around many A-listers. He still has not been tested. Meanwhile those three not only have but prior to their films they were solid B-listers. Blue Marvel is barely a C-lister. Again, you can't compare Blue Marvel to Ant-Man, Black Panther and Doctor Strange. Those three are not rookies.

As for your edited part. Monica doesn't need the Ultimates to appear more in the MCU. They can easily add her to the Avengers which would be beneficial as Marvel/Disney now has more strong women of color compared to DC/WB.

[Harsh Lesson]

Does anyone here play Marvel games? I ask because there are two mobile platforms that Marvel has close ties to in the way of licensing and production: Marvel Contest of Champions and Marvel Future Fight. With every film Marvel releases, these games receive character, uniform, and thematic updates to go along with them. A few months back Future Fight received an Ultimates update. It introduced four new characters: Blue Marvel, Anti-Man, Nova, and America Chavez— as well as a chapter in story mode that was inspired by Ewing’s first run with the Ultimates.

I mention this because this update helped define the meta of the game. A lot of characters have been introduced before and after the Ultimates, but only the X-Men were as impactful. Blue Marvel is arguably its best PvP character next to Wolverine, Jean Grey, and Apocalypse. Anti-Man is the most powerful PvE character next to Cable and Black Panther.

If you want to compete at the highest levels, you’ll want these characters. To complete the story mode, you’ll have to a chapter from their run with Ewing. This has gone a long way in making them more indtefiable outside of the comic reading community.

[Harsh Lesson]

Ant-Man, Black Panther and Doctor Strange are 10x more popular than Blue Marvel and has appeared in way more memorable stories than Blue Marvel. You can't compare Blue Marvel to them. Blue Marvel still has not been fully integrated into the Marvel U in comics. He still hasn't appeared around many A-listers. He still has not been tested. Meanwhile those three not only have but prior to their films they were solid B-listers. Blue Marvel is barely a C-lister. Again, you can't compare Blue Marvel to Ant-Man, Black Panther and Doctor Strange. Those three are not rookies.

As for your edited part. Monica doesn't need the Ultimates to appear more in the MCU. They can easily add her to the Avengers which would be beneficial as Marvel/Disney now has more strong women of color compared to DC/WB.

- Very few people outside of the comic reading community were aware of who Ant-Man and Doctor Strange were before their MCU films. Said productions weren’t successful because they had huge fan bases prior to, but because of the MCU’s branding. The same is true of Carol Danvers. Very few people recognize her name now, but they will after her film.

- I disagree that Blue Marvel hasn’t been fully integrated into the MU, and also with the notion that you have to be to be significantly featured in a film. See: Nadia & Teresa Thompson’s Valkyrie. Completely new characters with lots of fans because of their features in the MCU.

[Frontier]

This has been an issue well before the DCEU.

How so? I know Superman has struggled on film, but Batman found modern success with the Nolan films and Wonder Woman was successful in her own solo movie.

The one time DC banked on a character that wasn't part of the Trinity was Green Lantern, but again they shot themselves in the foot.

- Very few people outside of the comic reading community were aware of who Ant-Man and Doctor Strange were before their MCU films. Said productions weren’t successful they had huge fan bases prior to, but because of the MCU’s branding. The same is true of Carol Danvers. Very few people recognize her name now, but they will after her film.

And cue movie synergy .

- I disagree that Blue Marvel hasn’t been fully integrated into the MU, and also with the notion that you have to be to be significantly featured in a film. See: Nadia & Teresa Thompson’s Valkyrie. Completely new characters with lots of fans because of their features in the MCU.

Nadia? You mean Hope "it's about darn time" Van Dyne?

[Dr. Banner]

Ant-Man, Black Panther and Doctor Strange are 10x more popular than Blue Marvel and has appeared in way more memorable stories than Blue Marvel. You can't compare Blue Marvel to them. Blue Marvel still has not been fully integrated into the Marvel U in comics. He still hasn't appeared around many A-listers. He still has not been tested. Meanwhile those three not only have but prior to their films they were solid B-listers. Blue Marvel is barely a C-lister. Again, you can't compare Blue Marvel to Ant-Man, Black Panther and Doctor Strange. Those three are not rookies.

I couldn't have said it better.

[Harsh Lesson]

How so? I know Superman has struggled on film, but Batman found modern success with the Nolan films and Wonder Woman was successful in her own solo movie.

The one time DC banked on a character that wasn't part of the Trinity was Green Lantern, but again they shot themselves in the foot.

And cue movie synergy .

Nadia? You mean Hope "it's about darn time" Van Dyne?

Yep, that’s who I was referring to. My fault.

[Golden Guardian of Good]

- Very few people outside of the comic reading community were aware of who Ant-Man and Doctor Strange were before their MCU films. Said productions weren’t successful they had huge fan bases prior to, but because of the MCU’s branding. The same is true of Carol Danvers. Very few people recognize her name now, but they will after her film.

And very few people are aware of Blue Marvel who READ comics. I'm talking about their popularity in comics. Not outside of it. Either way those three characters appeared in more medias outside of comics. Carol Danvers too has appeared in more memorable stories than BM. Marvel has more options in using stories from these four characters histories than BM. You have to understand BM is still not even fully integrated into the Marvel U within comics. He still hasn't been a member of the mainstream Avengers. Does he even have a solid fanbase. Carol actually does. You keep comparing B-listers to a barely C-lister.

I understand the MCU brand being such a success but why would Marvel out of nowhere choose BM to be one of their head trinities? He has had no buildup within the comic book community. Jessica Jones, Guardians of the Galaxy, Carol, Black Panther, Strange, Ant-Man and Luke Cage all HAVE.

- I disagree that Blue Marvel hasn’t been fully integrated into the MU, and also with the notion that you have to be to be significantly featured in a film. See: Nadia & Teresa Thompson’s Valkyrie. Completely new characters with lots of fans because of their features in the MCU.

If he is fully integrated then can you point me to some memorable storylines from him? Not trying to be rude. How many A-listers has he been around since his mini?

As for the second bolded I never said you have to be significantly featured in a film. I was actually arguing the opposite by stating that Monica does not need the Ultimates. Either way Nakia(if that is what you meant with Nadia) and Valkyrie are popular because they appeared in two big character films and are connected to those main characters. There is a big chance that Monica may appear in Captain Marvel because her history is connected to Carols. The same can hardly be said for Blue Marvel. He still has not fully established himself in the MCU. This is one reason why I say he still has not been fully integrated.

[Golden Guardian of Good]

How so? I know Superman has struggled on film, but Batman found modern success with the Nolan films and Wonder Woman was successful in her own solo movie.

The one time DC banked on a character that wasn't part of the Trinity was Green Lantern, but again they shot themselves in the foot.

That's the problem they banked too much on Batman ESPECIALLY around the time of the Dark Knight trilogy where the Batman craze was at its biggest height. Green Lantern was such a big deal because it was ONE of the first times we said a DC film outside the big two. DC/WB clearly stagnated themselves with focusing on Batman and Superman. Its not about whether the films were successful or not but the fact that they didn't diversify and push their other characters. Before the DCEU when did we ever had a solid Flash, Aquaman, Teen Titans, Wonder Woman, Shazam, etc, etc film? We are NOW just getting this after many YEARS! DC has been doing this since the dang 30s well before the Marvel U was established in the 60s(I know Marvel characters like Cap existed prior but the universe that we call marvel did NOT) and yet before the DCEU all we really got was Superman and Batman films.

[Golden Guardian of Good]

I couldn't have said it better.

Exactly many comic book readers and fans of Marvel already KNEW who Black Panther, Doctor Strange and Ant-Man were. They already appeared in many medias outside of comics. They already ESTABLISHED themselves in comics since the 60s.

[Harsh Lesson]

And very few people are aware of Blue Marvel who READ comics. I'm talking about their popularity in comics. Not outside of it. Either way those three characters appeared in more medias outside of comics. Carol Danvers too has appeared in more memorable stories than BM. Marvel has more options in using stories from these four characters histories than BM. You have to understand BM is still not even fully integrated into the Marvel U within comics. He still hasn't been a member of the mainstream Avengers. Does he even have a solid fanbase. Carol actually does. You keep comparing B-listers to a barely C-lister.

Their popularity within the comic reading community is irrelevant to the question I’m asking. You do not have to have a heavily following within comic readership to carry a successful film franchise. The MCU has already proven that many times over. Further, Blue Marvel has become an identifiable character outside of the comic reading community because he’s significantly featured in media outside of comics: Marvel Lego Heroes and the aforementioned Marvel Future Fight. Even the most successful comics are only bringing a fraction of the revenue these gaming titles are.

I understand the MCU brand being such a success but why would Marvel out of nowhere choose BM to be one of their head trinities? He has had no buildup within the comic book community. Jessica Jones, Guardians of the Galaxy, Carol, Black Panther, Strange, Ant-Man and Luke Cage all HAVE.

Jessica Jone, Doctor Strange, Ant-Man, and the Guardians of the Galaxy all serve as examples of The MCU taking obscure characters and turning them into successful franchises and household names.

If he is fully integrated then can you point me to some memorable storylines from him? Not trying to be rude. How many A-listers has he been around since his mini?

The Ultimates. He was on a team with Earths mightiest hero, Black Panther.

As for the second bolded I never said you have to be significantly featured in a film. I was actually arguing the opposite by stating that Monica does not need the Ultimates. Either way Nakia(if that is what you meant with Nadia) and Valkyrie are popular because they appeared in two big character films and are connected to those main characters. There is a big chance that Monica may appear in Captain Marvel because her history is connected to Carols. The same can hardly be said for Blue Marvel. He still has not fully established himself in the MCU. This is one reason why I say he still has not been fully integrated.

I don’t understand what you’re arguing exactly, if I’m being honest. It sounds to me that the logic you’re using for Monica could also be applied to Adam.

[Harsh Lesson]

Exactly many comic book readers and fans of Marvel already KNEW who Black Panther, Doctor Strange and Ant-Man were. They already appeared in many medias outside of comics. They already ESTABLISHED themselves in comics since the 60s.

Your argument ends at Ant-Man and Wasp. Who was the latter before the Ant-Man film? How many memorable stories had she been in? How could Marvel choose to push her above so many more recognizable characters?

[Golden Guardian of Good]

Their popularity within the comic reading community is irrelevant to the question I’m asking. You do not have to have a heavily following within comic readership to carry a successful film franchise. The MCU has already proven that many times over. Further, Blue Marvel has become an identifiable character outside of the comic reading community because he’s significantly featured in media outside of comics: Marvel Lego Heroes and the aforementioned Marvel Future Fight. Even the most successful comics are only bringing a fraction of the revenue these gaming titles are.

And you're missing my point. Why would they pick Blue Marvel when there are other characters like him who are already more popular in comics? You brought up Ant-Man, Black Panther and Doctor Strange and I pointed out to you that those characters(unlike BM) were ALREADY popular in comics. The bolded is only true to an extent with Blade, however, Blade wasn't even marketed as a comic book/Marvel film instead it was cashing in on the vampire craze. As for those video games Blue Marvel has appeared in I already know what you mean and still those three characters dwarf BM in medias outside comics. BM isn't even a big character in those games iirc. And so you can't use the success for those video game titles for BM. Meanwhile, Black Panther actually had an important storyline IN Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2(which was bigger than those games mentioned by you). And Marvel Future Flight isn't even a big video game title.

Jessica Jone, Doctor Strange, Ant-Man, and the Guardians of the Galaxy all serve as examples of The MCU taking obscure characters and turning them into successful franchises and household names.

You call them obscure and yet Marvel has been building these characters far longer than BM. And calling Ant-Man and Strange especially obscure is a bit exaggerated. They're solid B-listers especially Strange who has ALWAYS been Marvel's go to supernatural character, has appeared in many medias outside of comics and even had his OWN animated film prior to his MCU film. More importantly he has appeared in more memorable stories than BM. Yes, we and Marvel did not know how he would do on the big screen but it was a given that he and Ant-Man would appear in the MCU due to how IMPORTANT they are to the Marvel U due to their histories. The same can not be said for BM. Yes, I know comic success doesn't always translate to successes outside comicbook media, however those characters mentioned have been IMPORTANT to the Marvel mythos/storyline and so it was a given that Marvel would use them down the road.

This is why I keep repeating that those characters have more memorable stories than BM in comics and why Marvel would choose them over BM. On top of that they already had FANS.

The Ultimates. He was on a team with Earths mightiest hero, Black Panther.

And that was basically it. A team of B and C-listers.

I don’t understand what you’re arguing exactly, if I’m being honest. It sounds to me that the logic you’re using for Monica could also be applied to Adam.

What I am saying is that Monica's history has been intertwined with important characters unlike BM. IIRC she got her powers the same way Carol did. Monica unlike BM was leader of the Avengers. Monica CAN appear as a side character in Captain Marvel because she has long history with Carol. Who does Blue Marvel have a long history with? My argument is essentially what important stories has BM appeared in that makes him deserving of being Marvels head guy?

[Golden Guardian of Good]

Your argument ends at Ant-Man and Wasp. Who was the latter before the Ant-Man film? How many memorable stories had she been in? How could Marvel choose to push her above so many more recognizable characters?

Not to be rude? But are you serious? Wasp unlike BM is a veteranAvengers member. It was a given that she was going to be pushed in the MCU. She has appeared in more memorable Avengers stories than BM. She appeared in the original Secret Wars for example. Blue Marvel did not. Many comic book readers know about the story about her marriage with Ant-Man.

Look I'm not trying to diss BM and WANT him to become bigger due to what I like what he stands for(according to his creator). But he still has not fully integrated himself in the Marvel U. He still has not stated why he is important. Strange is the go to supernatural character. Jessica married Luke. Ant-Man is a veteran Avenger and Hank is among the smartest in the Marvel U. Black Panther is the first black hero and king of the WEALTHIEST nation in the Marvel U Earth. Guardians of the Galaxy are known as being the heros of Marvels cosmic side. Not only that but Gamora is Thanos' adopted daughter, Starfox his brother and Drax who's mission is to kill him. You say being important in comics doesn't matter much but again why should BM be picked first when they're are more deserving characters like him?

[Harsh Lesson]

Not to be rude? But are you serious? Wasp unlike BM is a veteranAvengers member. It was a given that she was going to be pushed in the MCU. She has appeared in more memorable Avengers stories than BM. She appeared in the original Secret Wars for example. Blue Marvel did not. Many comic book readers know about the story about her marriage with Ant-Man.

Look I'm not trying to diss BM and WANT him to become bigger due to what I like what he stands for(according to his creator). But he still has not fully integrated himself in the Marvel U. He still has not stated why he is important. Strange is the go to supernatural character. Jessica married Luke. Ant-Man is a veteran Avenger and Hank is among the smartest in the Marvel U. Black Panther is the first black hero and king of the WEALTHIEST nation in the Marvel U Earth. Guardians of the Galaxy are known as being the heros of Marvels cosmic side. Not only that but Gamora is Thanos' adopted daughter, Starfox his brother and Drax who's mission is to kill him. You say being important in comics doesn't matter much but again why should BM be picked first when they're are more deserving characters like him?

Hope Van Dyne is not a veteran Avenger. You’re being inconsistent and moving goal posts.

[Golden Guardian of Good]

Hope Van Dyne is not a veteran Avenger. You’re being inconsistent and moving goal posts.

How the heck am I moving the goal posts when I been trying to follow your ever changing arguments? And I forgot that the Wasp in the MCU is not Janet. Either way... The Wasp character IS a veteran Avenger. How is that moving the goal post? I'm answering your arguments.

And again I never moved the goal posts. My point still stands that BM as of yet still hasn't fully integrated into the Marvel U, still hasn't had a memorable story(which you never showed me when asked) and so why should Marvel/Disney out of nowhere push HIM as their TOP DOG(as seen with the thread title) when there are more deserving characters? Who are more important to the Marvel mythos.