A Doctor Fate / Spectre ongoing

[Trey Strain]

Would you like to see this, if it were Kent Nelson and Jim Corrigan? And if they were powered down to reasonable levels? And were often shown in their secret identities and with supporting casts, to help ground them?

[Assam]

Would you like to see this, if it were Kent Nelson and Jim Corrigan?

Nope. Would only be interested if it were Hector Hall and Hal Jordan.

And if they were powered down to reasonable levels?

Significantly powering down characters like these defeats the entire point of them.

[MajorHoy]

Would you like to see this, if it were Kent Nelson and Jim Corrigan? And if they were powered down to reasonable levels? And were often shown in their secret identities and with supporting casts, to help ground them?

That's more restrictions than a straight-jacket in a tiny room!
Why use those two characters and place such strict limits on both of them?

[Trey Strain]

That's more restrictions than a straight-jacket in a tiny room!
Why use those two characters and place such strict limits on both of them?

Because every time they've been depicted as godlike, or with God telling them what to do, their comics have flopped. It's obvious by now that nobody wants to buy that stuff, and besides that it's not writeable.

Notice that I said they should be powered down to a REASONABLE level. If you're going to argue with reasonable, then you've already placed yourself in an untenable position.

But hey, maybe DC should try it again that way and expect a different result. It might work this time. You never know. But I bet it wouldn't.

[MajorHoy]

Because every time they've been depicted as godlike, or with God telling them what to do, their comics have flopped. It's obvious by now that nobody wants to buy that stuff, and besides that it's not writeable.

Notice that I said they should be powered down to a REASONABLE level. If you're going to argue with reasonable, then you've already placed yourself in an untenable position.

But hey, maybe DC should try it again that way and expect a different result. It might work this time. You never know. But I bet it wouldn't.

The problem, as it often is with your suggested pairings, is who you pair up. You don't need two powerhouses and then de-power them both; you have one with a less powerful, contrasting character so that you have contrasts that would provide more story opportunities.

[Trey Strain]

The problem, as it often is with your suggested pairings, is who you pair up. You don't need two powerhouses and then de-power them both; you have one with a less powerful, contrasting character so that you have contrasts that would provide more story opportunities.

Do you know why Geoff Johns didn't put the Spectre on the JSA? He said the character was too powerful to fit on a team. And he was right about that.

These two characters don't fit on a team, and they can't sell a solo comic either. You HAVE to power them down. There's nothing else you can do with them.

Their contrasting personalities would create a dynamic. The idea of one character being far more powerful on a team doesn't stand up. Then the lesser character becomes a little wiseacre who is right all the time, as Ollie was in Green Arrow/Green Lantern. And the other becomes a doofus, as Hal was in that comic.

[WillieMorgan]

I don't think so, certainly not under those strict parameters. It would depend on the creative team in charge and the direction that it took. That's a much more important factor for me in deciding whether to follow a title than needlessly altering/ruining (delete as applicable) the basics of a character in the mistaken belief that it would result in a new Batman-level sales smash. Both The Spectre and Dr. Fate are fine characters in their own way but I wouldn't go out of my way for a title like that. Again, it would depend who was helming something like this.

The inability of those two characters to hold an ongoing has much more to do with them being niche characters in an already overcrowded speciality market, rather than their power set.

[NeathBlue]

Yes if it’s them as Corrigan and Nelson, they should be people who portray them imo.
Not sure about power them down, but yes about a regular supporting cast , Phantom Stranger, Deadman etc

[Frontier]

I think it would be an interesting pairing.

You've got the agent of order and a spirit of vengeance working together, and both would probably have two very different approaches or takes towards certain situations.

I'm thinking of something like "Chill of the Night" from the Brave and the Bold cartoon where Phantom Stranger and Spectre vied for Batman's soul, only substituting Dr. Fate for Phantom Stranger.

[Trey Strain]

I think it would be an interesting pairing.

You've got the agent of order and a spirit of vengeance working together, and both would probably have two very different approaches or takes towards certain situations.

I'm thinking of something like "Chill of the Night" from the Brave and the Bold cartoon where Phantom Stranger and Spectre vied for Batman's soul, only substituting Dr. Fate for Phantom Stranger.

If you've got two characters in a story who think the same things, then one of them is redundant. How many movies have you seen where a pair of cops who are working together think the same things? None! There's always a contrast between their personalities.

As for powering them down, you have to portray them so they can be threatened in every story. Without, you know, having them save the universe every three months. Give them some individual and relateable human concerns in their secret identities and in their duties, and you'll have a comic there.

[dr-brainwave]

I'd prefer a Dr Fate (Kent Nelson)/Hourman (Rex Tyler) ongoing "The Super team supreme", it would be about science, magic and bromance.

But anyway i'd certainely read a Spectre/Dr Fate book i love both characters.

[MajorHoy]

... These two characters don't fit on a team, and they can't sell a solo comic either.

I seem to remember John Ostander and Tom Mandrake having a respectable run with The Spectre back in the 1990s.
It's just a question of finding the right creative team and the right hook as to whether either character could support a solo book these days. It probably wouldn't be that much harder than your idea for a lesser-level team-up book between the two characters finding any sort of success.

[Lee Stone]

The 1988 Dr. Fate series ran to 1992.
The 1992 Spectre series ran to 1998.

And you can't simply change the characters to 'make them sell'. See Fate, which was them doing just that.
Fans of the characters would be turned off going into it expecting one thing and getting something totally different.

They may not sell Batman or X-Men numbers, but for the types of characters they are they do well.
They may be characters that some readers, and writers, don't 'get', but they're still characters that appeal to a certain sect of the comics audience.

[Doctor Know]

Doctor Fate is reasonably powered (depending on which Fate it is and the interpretation of his powers), for the DCU. It's the Specter who is too OP. Making him the spirit of God's vengeance necessitates the limitless power levels. And with no limit, the Specter can always be written to victory. If the Specter was just a spook, with eldritch and supernatural powers, then you could maintain an ongoing title.

[Lee Stone]

Also, Neil Gaiman's Sandman lasted for 75 issues and sold pretty well.