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  1. #61
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Although I might take a break from Spidey related internet sites if they do for a couple months, mainly because I don't want to witness the backlash firsthand. I think it could get very nasty lol.
    Yeah it could, though CBR seems like it would get the less nasty part since I don't see many of Spider-Marriage fanboy, or even MJ fanboys, but anyways, I'd just react to it as "Mary Jane got Airplaned again, oh well", then just wait until she returns lol.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Lurking not-yet reader here. Is Dan Slott's run really that bad that this is a possibility? XD
    Depends who you ask. If you ask the half dozen or so people who live on these boards and have made bashing Slott their chosen vocation, than yes. If you ask the tens of thousands of people who have made Amazing Spider-Man Marvel's most successful super-hero title of the past ten years, or the people who gave Slott an Eisner for Silver Surfer, or the people who are entrusting Slott with bringing back the Fantastic Four and Tony Stark, then no.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    Depends who you ask. If you ask the half dozen or so people who live on these boards and have made bashing Slott their chosen vocation, than yes. If you ask the tens of thousands of people who have made Amazing Spider-Man Marvel's most successful super-hero title of the past ten years, or the people who gave Slott an Eisner for Silver Surfer, or the people who are entrusting Slott with bringing back the Fantastic Four and Tony Stark, then no.
    It's also a pretty hilarious premise for a question. The Night Gwen Stacy Died, Kraven's Last Hunt, The Gift, The Death of Jean DeWolff, and Best of Enemies are all considered highlights of the Spider-man mythos. Killing MJ is not necessarily a good or bad idea, it's about execution (pun not intended). MJ dying heroically with a dying declaration of love between she and Peter could be an all-time tearjerker. I doubt she's the one dying, but it's really not out of line for this comic and character to have a dramatic death at the hands of a mortal enemy - someone's probably going to bite the big one in 800.

  4. #64
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    To be honest, Marvel needs to **** or get off the pot. If they really want to move on from MJ and tell new stories, then do so. But stop bringing up OMD every 3-4 issues. Kill off MJ so they can stop trolling readers with "they might get back together."

    But they wont. The MJ teasing keeps the older, long time readers engaged because guess what? People WANT MJ and Pete to get back together. So either end them forever or renew the spider-marriage. But this constant teasing and taunting is just an obvious ploy to try and retain those older readers while still keeping the 'single and ready to mingle' vision they have of Peter.

    It's disgusting. OMD will NEVER heal until there's resolution one way or the other. However, at this point, they will never really resolve it. If they got their memories back, one of two things would HAVE to happen. Either MJ and Pete get back together, which they dont want. Or MJ rejects Pete despite remembering everything, which would close that door forever, which they cant do because readers WANT Pete and MJ.

    So they'll stick with the new status quo of taunting us with MJ in between bland, forgettable, interchangeable love interests that no one gives a rats ass about.

    Which really goes to show how little respect and care the producers and writers have for the fans AND the character. It's all about the money. They dont give two shits about their readers.
    Last edited by 2Thumbs; 04-25-2018 at 07:34 AM.

  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    It's also a pretty hilarious premise for a question. The Night Gwen Stacy Died, Kraven's Last Hunt, The Gift, The Death of Jean DeWolff, and Best of Enemies are all considered highlights of the Spider-man mythos. Killing MJ is not necessarily a good or bad idea, it's about execution (pun not intended). MJ dying heroically with a dying declaration of love between she and Peter could be an all-time tearjerker. I doubt she's the one dying, but it's really not out of line for this comic and character to have a dramatic death at the hands of a mortal enemy - someone's probably going to bite the big one in 800.
    Eh, if MJ died with some love declaration, then it wouldn't really have much effect, part of the reason OMD is as hated is because it happened during JMS' run, which gave a pretty good relationship between Peter and MJ, when MJ was airplaned back in Byrne's run, while the story is a lot less controversial than OMD, the relationship wasn't as well written too for a while, so I doubt fans were as pissed (Though it was probably enough for Marvel to back down and bring her back). And with Slott's run, well, let's face it, he's been doing a pretty **** job with her when he bothers to use her (RYV being the obvious exception), though Pre-Superior there were better moments (Even though it started bad), so if MJ gets killed off, then because of what was shown before, some love declaration would be just whatever, even if the scene itself is well done, it won't be as impactful because she was poorly used before.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Eh, if MJ died with some love declaration, then it wouldn't really have much effect, part of the reason OMD is as hated is because it happened during JMS' run, which gave a pretty good relationship between Peter and MJ, when MJ was airplaned back in Byrne's run, while the story is a lot less controversial than OMD, the relationship wasn't as well written too for a while, so I doubt fans were as pissed (Though it was probably enough for Marvel to back down and bring her back). And with Slott's run, well, let's face it, he's been doing a pretty **** job with her when he bothers to use her (RYV being the obvious exception), though Pre-Superior there were better moments (Even though it started bad), so if MJ gets killed off, then because of what was shown before, some love declaration would be just whatever, even if the scene itself is well done, it won't be as impactful because she was poorly used before.
    Slott's entire run has been mediocre. No character development. No decent love interests. Just a lot of blah and regurgitated arcs.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    Depends who you ask. If you ask the half dozen or so people who live on these boards and have made bashing Slott their chosen vocation, than yes.
    Do we really need to take digs at people with differing opinions like this? Slott criticism extends beyond just these forums and is larger than you think. It matters little if we are a "proven minority", we still have a voice, an opinion to share, and that should not be diminished or demeaned because it is not the loudest voice in the wilderness.

    But considering I find "meh" reactions are often the most intellectually honest ones in what passes for "popularity" in today's genre fiction (as it pertains to Marvel), thanks

    I take a look at movies like the ones from the MCU, and consensus worldwide seems to think they can do no wrong, well I've seen most of them and my opinion, while not shared by all but remains my view to have, is that nearly all of them are intellectually empty stake-free tension-less quip-a-minute comedy jams for tone-deaf actors and over the hill former names that treat movie audiences like they're five years old. Those movies don't try at all. They don't even pretend to try, because they make money hand over fist (or rather ham over quip)

    While it doesn't grow at an extravagant rate, this opinion is shared, and I find it an intellectually honest one. We don't conform to what the consensus think, so what? If everyone agreed, we'd have no real debates, no need to improve, no need to study, everyone would just curl up in an echo chamber and snuggle up together. A world within a chamber is a world without an expanse.

    I doubt fans were as pissed[/B]
    Believe me, they were. I was one of them. MJ may not have been written as well in the late 90s, but that does not mean she could not be salvaged once Mackie and Byrne were gone, as proven when JMS took over the title.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 04-25-2018 at 12:54 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Considering I find "meh" reactions are often the most intellectually honest ones in what passes for "popularity" in today's genre fiction (as it pertains to Marvel), thanks



    Believe me, they were. I was one of them. MJ may not have been written as well in the late 90s, but that does not mean she could not be salvaged once Mackie and Byrne were gone, as proven when JMS took over the title.
    Do you think the character is salvageable now? If so, how? When Slott bothered to use her (once every 5-10 issues as a tease to remind us of OMD), she's been pretty unlikeable. She keeps leading Peter on then rejecting him again. Slott has pretty much undermined and decimated the character for a decade.

    Even in ASM 799, when Peter says "one of the most important people in my life," in reference to her, she fires back with "One of?" I mean, she repeatedly rejects him but still expects him to find her important and care about her, which is just... idk. Shitty. If she was a decent human being at all post-OMD, she'd leave him alone. She knows that she's hurting him again and again, but just doesn't care.

    Idk if she can come back from that, tbh.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Thumbs View Post
    Do you think the character is salvageable now? If so, how? When Slott bothered to use her (once every 5-10 issues as a tease to remind us of OMD), she's been pretty unlikeable. She keeps leading Peter on then rejecting him again. Slott has pretty much undermined and decimated the character for a decade.

    Even in ASM 799, when Peter says "one of the most important people in my life," in reference to her, she fires back with "One of?" I mean, she repeatedly rejects him but still expects him to find her important and care about her, which is just... idk. Shitty. If she was a decent human being at all post-OMD, she'd leave him alone. She knows that she's hurting him again and again, but just doesn't care.

    Idk if she can come back from that, tbh.
    I've had to headcanon all the unlikable moments as being down to what she said Mephisto may do to her at the end of OMD (same speech that said their love would always overcome what they became on the surface), I think the salvaging can only come from addressing OMD and ridding her of the demonic influence, but as you've said, if they go that route and still have MJ reject Peter despite being purged of what causes her behavior, it would be more difficult to salvage her in the eyes of fans, unless you look elsewhere for versions of MJ that match our preferences, which will eventually prove difficult.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Eh, if MJ died with some love declaration, then it wouldn't really have much effect, part of the reason OMD is as hated is because it happened during JMS' run, which gave a pretty good relationship between Peter and MJ, when MJ was airplaned back in Byrne's run, while the story is a lot less controversial than OMD, the relationship wasn't as well written too for a while, so I doubt fans were as pissed (Though it was probably enough for Marvel to back down and bring her back). And with Slott's run, well, let's face it, he's been doing a pretty **** job with her when he bothers to use her (RYV being the obvious exception), though Pre-Superior there were better moments (Even though it started bad), so if MJ gets killed off, then because of what was shown before, some love declaration would be just whatever, even if the scene itself is well done, it won't be as impactful because she was poorly used before.
    I take your point, but I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that Kraven was a joke before his Last Hunt and Aunt May was around but hardly doing anything before her (beautifully written) death (she did have a nice moment w/MJ when she told MJ that MJ was pregnant, but those types of moments were few and far between). A good moment or set of moments, plus the audiences attachment to the character, can give a comic book death staying power and gravity well past the current state of the character (see also Captain Marvel, whose death was a year and a half after his last appearance and three years after his book had been cancelled). Again, I'm not saying Slott could, should, or will kill MJ, but only that, if he does, it could end up being both good and impactful.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    I've had to headcanon all the unlikable moments as being down to what she said Mephisto may do to her at the end of OMD (same speech that said their love would always overcome what they became on the surface), I think the salvaging can only come from addressing OMD and ridding her of the demonic influence, but as you've said, if they go that route and still have MJ reject Peter despite being purged of what causes her behavior, it would be more difficult to salvage her in the eyes of fans, unless you look elsewhere for versions of MJ that match our preferences, which will eventually prove difficult.
    I hate that they had her give that speech.

    MJ: Our love will overcome this.

    Marvel: Nope. Never getting back together lulz. But we will taunt you with the possibilty every 4 issues to sell comics and cover for the fact thst we're incapable of writing a new love interest.

    Just pisses me off. Why have her say that if they knew that it was just a fucking lie?
    Last edited by 2Thumbs; 04-25-2018 at 09:34 AM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Thumbs View Post
    I hate that they had her give that speech.

    MJ: Our love will overcome this.

    Marvel: Nope. Never getting back together lulz.

    Just pisses me off. Why have her say that if they knew that it was just a fucking lie?
    Same reason they never outright revealed the fate of MJ's daughter in 616 and left you think it went away to Europe. Keep the hope alive that things can be reversed or course corrected, hope is a key aspect of business in this "sucka born every minute" buisness and Marvel is but merely Barnum

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Same reason they never outright revealed the fate of MJ's daughter in 616 and left you think it went away to Europe. Keep the hope alive that things can be reversed or course corrected, hope is a key aspect of business in this "sucka born every minute" buisness and Marvel is but merely Barnum
    The more I think about it, the angrier I get. My whole thing started again a couple days ago when I saw an a post elsewhere about MJ and Pete in issue 797 where MJ teases and rejects Pete again. I was reminded of OMD, then did some quick catching up on current ASM... and it's all been tainted by OMD.

    OMD has even ruined the new game coming out in September. Insomniac is going with an incarnation of bitch MJ that we see now in ASM, and I'm not going to buy it unless Pete and MJ end up together at the end of the game. Which is too bad, cause I was really looking forward to it. I love games, I love SM, so it should be a no brainer. But if it's yet another MJ/ Pete tease, they can go **** themselves.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Thumbs View Post
    Insomniac is going with an incarnation of bitch MJ that we see now in ASM,
    MJ in the Insomniac game is someone who is very career-focused and is said to still be in love with Peter despite a six month bump in the road between them. Do you have any proof that she is a "bitch" to Peter in the game via clips or gameplay?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    MJ in the Insomniac game is someone who is very career-focused and is said to still be in love with Peter despite a six month bump in the road between them. Do you have any proof that she is a "bitch" to Peter in the game via clips or gameplay?
    They've said that part of why she isn't with Peter is because she had trouble dealing with being the girlfriend of Spider-Man despite loving Peter. Sound familiar? That sounds almost word for word how she just teased and rejected Pete two issues ago. That constant tease then rejection is why people are really starting to hate the character.
    Last edited by 2Thumbs; 04-25-2018 at 10:59 AM.

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