Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 49
  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member t hedge coke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Weihai
    Posts
    7,375

    Default

    Here's my thing: a prostitute is an individual who has an individual perspective on their life and work, that cannot me simplifies to one thing or another.

    A fictional policewoman wearing short shorts or a tube top to a combat situation, however, is a fictional character. They are designed,and that sort of design is to objectify their sexual characteristics.

    Presuming the motives or self-image of real human beings and pretending fictional people have real motivations or are naturally formed are both nonfunctional and kind of sad. But, then, so is confusing sexuality, sexy, sex,objectification, and sexism.

    Sexualization does not equate to sexism. Acknowledging the existence of sexuality is not the same as sexually objectifying. Fictional people are wholly manufactured, always.
    Patsy Walker on TV! Patsy Walker in new comics! Patsy Walker in your brain! And Jessica Jones is the new Nancy! (Oh, and read the Comics Cube.)

  2. #32
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    4,641

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    I wasn't talking about you at all in my post just making a point. I'm clueless to how you took that personal. Speaking of reading in to things...
    Perhaps it was the fact that you directly quoted me.

  3. #33
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    4,641

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    Here's my thing: a prostitute is an individual who has an individual perspective on their life and work, that cannot me simplifies to one thing or another.

    A fictional policewoman wearing short shorts or a tube top to a combat situation, however, is a fictional character. They are designed,and that sort of design is to objectify their sexual characteristics.

    Presuming the motives or self-image of real human beings and pretending fictional people have real motivations or are naturally formed are both nonfunctional and kind of sad. But, then, so is confusing sexuality, sexy, sex,objectification, and sexism.

    Sexualization does not equate to sexism. Acknowledging the existence of sexuality is not the same as sexually objectifying. Fictional people are wholly manufactured, always.
    I haven't seen anyone pretending fictional people have real motivations or are naturally formed. As you said, they're designed. And how they're designed indicates what their purpose is to the story they're involved in. Rocafort's Starfire served a different purpose to her story than Jessica Jones did to "Alias". I'm not arguing that there's no place for sexuality, I'm just arguing that it's far more common that female characters emphasize that aspect and I feel it takes away from other aspects. For some characters that is the be-all end-all, and that's fine.

  4. #34
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    The flip side to that is someone who pretends to be a feminist when they just think scantily clad women are disgusting.
    This really sounds like another version of the old "If you don't like it, you must be gay!" comment I see defending any kind of squick in Youtube comments and other ugly places on the internet.

  5. #35
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,327

    Default

    Also, on the subject of Strong Female Characters with their **** hanging out, I think the absurdities of that were covered quite well by Kate Beaton.

    http://harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311


  6. #36
    Were You There? Michael P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Location, Location!
    Posts
    2,963

    Default

    Along with Carly Monardo and Meredith Gran.
    "It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether I win or lose." - Peter David, on life

    "If you can't say anything nice about someone, sit right here by me." - Alice Roosevelt Longworth, on manners

    "You're much stronger than you think you are." - Superman, on humankind


    All-New, All-Different Marvel Checklist

  7. #37
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    If you're drawn to a story because of the barely-dressed women involved then that's fine, but own the fact that they're what's drawing you and that it's not a funny little detail that's beside the point.
    They're what's drawing me in, alongside a great storyline. If all I wanted was to look at beautiful women, then all I'd have to do is surf the internet.

    How convenient that you ignored everything I said about me wanting men in the media to be sexualized more just so you can pass me off as sexist. I find sexualized male designs entertaining, despite being straight.

  8. #38
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    4,641

    Default

    Firstly because it sounds dishonest to me. "Sure I want women in my comics to be sexualized, but I'm cool with the guys being that way too." I can't know that it's a lie so I didn't want to address it until pressed. I also didn't say that you're sexist, only that your portrayal of your tastes as being related to female empowerment seemed a bit (again) dishonest. The fact that female sexualization and objectification is as common as it is in comics and other media is sexist, but that's not on any one customer (no matter how much they enjoy it or feel it's essential to their enjoyment).

  9. #39
    All-New Member Tach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    12

    Default

    When it comes to comics & women, women are very much portrayed as objects and not as strong self motivated individuals.

    It is sad that female comic readers feel that they have to wear ridiculous tight (slutty) outfits at comic con just to show that they are interested in comics .

    But that is media everyone knows what sells?
    Sex
    And to the most of the people that replied to this thread will see past the sex in most media. But to the other billions of people they are like sheep being manipulated by a sheep dog (Media).

    The sense of fantasy that deludes everyone every time they put the tv on, read , browse the net etc.. sedates them from reality, i see car adverts with half naked men and women is it needed? No. but will it make the numbest minded individual buy a car? Maybe.

    But in regards to a porn star being famous, people will support there career whilst they can do it on a intimate level at home in there bedrooms but as soon as they see that actually the men and women that do porn are real people it tarnishes the fantasy.

    But it was just a job to the actor/actress and it paid and helped them through whatever they were going through. Why not!

    They never escaped reality they had bills to pay. It was the people that watched it that used them as portals to escape there own mundane existences.
    And now they cant do that they hate, hate for no reason and it is that hate that keeps them watching the media and never being apart of it.

    (Rant over)

  10. #40
    fighter of the nightman saiths's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    79

    Default

    my answer tends to stay on the topic of the sex industry and the harm it does but this applies to everything where women are treated poorly. this includes but is not limited to films, television shows, comics, books, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by DS1 View Post
    Prostitutes, porn stars and strippers are vilified for making money off their bodies. What exactly is wrong with that, as long they choose to do so willingly, and aren't forced into it? I actually respect them. It must take a strong stomach to have sex with repulsive losers, and to pretend to care about them.
    let's focus on this.

    you've contradicted yourself by saying that as long as they chose to do so willingly it's fine but towards the end mention how this sex with repulsive losers takes a strong stomach. which one is it? the thing with the sex industry is that women aren't willing to have sex with anyone and they're uncomfortable with a lot of the things they are FORCED to do on camera. who's forcing them? good question. their bosses, the person shooting, the male lead and the viewers.

    (this contains mentions of sex, abuse, etc)
    it's no secret that most pornstars start off doing mostly webcam shows. this used to be how you'd make it into the business because potential buyers (yes, buyers. women in the sex industry are bought) could literally view before they buy which is disgusting. after a woman accepts a generous offer and a contract built upon her own terms, they begin filming. they will start off with something on a "smaller" scale which could be a masturbation scene or a girl on girl film. bosses make sure their clients are comfortable with them before they start pressuring them into high level porn.

    why climb up a ladder in the first place? because the viewers are persistent. it's also no surprise that males are a very large majority of the porn viewing culture so when these viewers want to see something that makes them feel pleasure, they demand it. this is what men are used to; wanting something and then getting what they want. this is a form of abuse on the viewers part because people are willing to watch a girl get tortured just so they can feel good afterward. this also implants the idea that this isn't bad because they're not torturing anyone and hardly anyone ever gives it a second thought so people come (no pun intended) and go day after day finding whatever other fetishes appeal to them and this all starts over again.

    i used to be all about the sex industry because women were feeling liberated exploring their sexuality but it wasn't until i learned that female porn stars are treated terribly that i changed my mind of the whole issue. i educated myself and found out a lot more than i bargained for.

    shelly lubben is an amazing source for learning about the porn industry since she's an ex porn star. she goes around exposing the lives of people working in the sex industry and is focused on telling their stories for the better good so that people get help. the site has quotes from both people who are pro-porn and people who are anti-porn.

    quotes from men who work/have worked in porn
    max hardcore (former porn star/producer) - "I'm not here to apologize. I'm just here to say, 'We make entertainment and let's see how far we can take it."
    lexington stele (pornstar/producer) - "I find myself not that much unlike the slaves and slave traders of some 400 years ago. I participate in the most heinous of ALL trades- THE BUYING AND SELLING OF HUMAN FLESH. I trade my own flesh for monetary compensation and I sell the flesh of others for the same."
    john stagliano (producer) - It looks like violence but it's not. I mean, pleasure and pain are the same thing, right?"

    that's only some of them but really, it's a terrible look into the misogynistic POV that's being portrayed in adult films. these people are aware of what they're doing and they still APPROVE of it, they have no future plans of changing the way they do things and that's the message that's being put out into the world. not the females because no one cares about her. porn isn't about how a female is feeling, it's about how badly she's getting treated and how far they can go with it. this results in what you were first talking about: the reason porn is limiting the view of pornstars from being actual human beings.

    people aren't taught or told about the things that happen when the camera is off. if you want to find out, you have to research and no one wants to research because it's so much easier to watch porn and masturbate. the social stigma of pornstars is that they're pornstars and they can't be anything else. why would they be? they were beat, spit on, thrown around and abused for the pleasure of other people. they aren't even treated as people so no one cares to take them seriously outside of that realm.

    another really great blog for things about anti-porn and feminism is mean feminism. there's some amazing posts on there that go in depth about the porn world/culture and what it's created but my favorite thing she's ever said;

    "In my anti-porn opinion, here are some of the best reasons for being anti-porn:

    Because most women in porn would prefer to leave porn if they could.
    Because it is very difficult, if not impossible, to tell if the women in porn are acting under coercion or being raped on camera.
    Because porn desensitizes our culture to violence against women.
    Because supporting the small percentage of women who CHOOSE and are VERY HAPPY about being in porn OVER the much larger percentage of women who are treated like human condoms is very sheltered and bourgeois and privileged and, frankly, naive."

    women don't want to be treated like **** and yet, here we are.
    Last edited by saiths; 07-28-2014 at 03:25 AM.

  11. #41
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    4,641

    Default

    Exactly. I have no doubt there are some exceptionally emotionally balanced individuals who would be willing to take their clothes off and have sex with strangers for money (on camera or off), but history has taught us that it isn't the vast majority of those involved in porn/prostitution/stripping. These occupations literally treat women as commodities and objects. And that's just when women have a "choice", to say nothing of human trafficking (often of minors). Gun to your head would you say every porn clip/movie you've seen online starred a willing participant (or even an adult participant)?

  12. #42
    BANNED
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,259

    Default

    DS1:
    Prostitutes, porn stars and strippers are vilified for making money off their bodies. What exactly is wrong with that, as long they choose to do so willingly, and aren't forced into it? I actually respect them. It must take a strong stomach to have sex with repulsive losers, and to pretend to care about them.
    All kinds of people pay for sex. Plenty of them good looking and charismatic.

    Videovigilante hates prostitution, but he caught plenty of reasonably good looking guys. Off course, faces are blurred.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/videovigilanteokc/videos

    Escorts with their own place and doing outcalls are also out there but he cannot run after them. They command higher quality costumers.
    Last edited by Arundel Armor Hunter; 07-28-2014 at 08:17 AM.

  13. #43
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,732

    Default

    Shelley Lubben is also a bit of an extreme case, you can leave porn and still be ok with the industry and not want it to be razed to the ground

    After Porn Ends is a good documentary about people that have left the industry and how their life is post porn

  14. #44
    fighter of the nightman saiths's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    Shelley Lubben is also a bit of an extreme case, you can leave porn and still be ok with the industry and not want it to be razed to the ground

    After Porn Ends is a good documentary about people that have left the industry and how their life is post porn
    but the main point is that people who leave the industry are not okay with it. there a countless number of interviews and videos where ex pornstars have stated that everyone in the industry know what they're doing and how wrong it is.

    what in your opinion is a "milder" case? the pornstars who leave the industry but get harassed daily afraid to speak out about their experiences? the only difference between shelley and others is that she's spoken out and others haven't.

  15. #45
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,732

    Default

    Jennie Ketcham (formerly Penny Flame) left porn, is still supportive of girls working in the industry, has actually written a book and is working as a counselor and motivational speaker

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •