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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Default Controversial Statement: Wonderwoman needs more male readers.

    People wonder why Wonderwoman doesn’t have as many books as Batman, Superman or even Green Lantern. It could be because Wonderwoman’s primary demographic is far more limited. Wonderwoman seems almost exclusively targeted at female readers. Some would say “aren’t Batman and Superman targeted at male readers?” . I’d say not completely. Though Batman, and Superman, themselves might be white/male, the have several supporting characters that aren’t. These characters help to broaden the appeal of the franchise as a whole. Wonderwoman really doesn’t have that. So in a way she’s working from a smaller potential fan pool.

    Even Flash has Female derivatives.

    The closed Wonderwoman has to prominent male character is Steve Trevor. And he’s more male Lois Lane, then Supergirl or Batwoman. Does anyone else see this as a potential problem for the character.

  2. #2
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Isn't WW's readership already majority male though?
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Speaking only for myself, I don't regularly buy any books from the Trinity. I do, however, pick up a storyline here and there if it seems interesting to me and the creative team gets me excited. I bought the Azzarello/ Chiang Wonder Woman because of the art at first, then because I liked where the story was going.

    I would also say that if you look a say the 90's, Wonder Woman seemed aimed at guys because of the cheesecake factor and the "badgirl" trend that saw a lot of female characters become more sexualized. Not sure how that translated in sales, but I don't recall her having more titles in the "WW family."

  4. #4
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    I don't think the problem is a lack of male supporting character: look characters like Catwoman, Barbara Gordon, Storm, Psylocke, Jean Grey, Rogue, Emma Frost: they have a lot of male fans, even if they are female characters. In my opinion no one read a book for the sex of the supporting character: the people reads a book if the main character is loved and the stories are good and the Batman franchise is a perfect example of that: in almost all the title the main character (doesn't matter if he is Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl…) works alone.
    Last edited by Gotham citizen; 02-28-2020 at 01:03 PM.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    I don't think the problem is a lack of male supporting character: look characters like Catwoman, Barbara Gordon, Storm, Psylocke, Jean Grey, Rogue, Emma Frost: they have a lot of male fans, even if they are female characters. In my opinion no one read a book for the sex of the supporting character: the people reads a book if the main character is loved and the stories are good and the Batman franchise is a perfect example of that: in almost all the title the main character (doesn't matter if he is Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl…) works alone.
    I agree that not having a "male counterpart" (like Batman has Batgirl/Batwoman and Superman has Supergirl) isn't the issue. That said; I wouldn't mind if she did have someone like that. Because literally all the other big names of the Justice League have an opposite sex counterpart, except her.

  6. #6
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Yes but they are counterpart, not supporting character: both Batwoman than Batgirl have their own title, with their own stories. The only real supporting character that Batman had, were the various Robin, Alfred and Commissioner Gordon, who were all male.
    Last edited by Gotham citizen; 02-28-2020 at 01:20 PM.

  7. #7
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    What WW needs is quality scripts that celebrate her deal and superstar artistic support. There are plenty of artists and writers who have pitched over the years or who have expressed intetest. But DC leadership has actively not greenlit those. The Amazons Attack debacle is a great example. Dan gutted that and made it into an anti WW joke instead. My hope is that now that he is gone the opportunity for people who actually like the characters will be used to great effect.

  8. #8

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    Male Wonder Woman fan/reader here and....HELL NO! They just tried giving her a "male counterpart" in the form of her useless twin brother and it was atrocious.

    It's Wonder Woman. I don't follow or read Wonder Woman because want to see more dudes. There are plenty of other books with an abundance of dude characters.
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  9. #9
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    Yes but they are counterpart, not supporting character: both Batwoman than Batgirl have their own title, with their own stories. The only real supporting character that Batman had, were the various Robin, Alfred and Commissioner Gordon, who were all male.
    They are still derivative characters of Batman that exist primarily in his orbit and share his editors. To me that makes them part of the Batman franchise. Major changes to the Batman status quo would affect them, and most of them don't really have many villains of their own and rely heavily on using Batman's rogue gallery.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    Male Wonder Woman fan/reader here and....HELL NO! They just tried giving her a "male counterpart" in the form of her useless twin brother and it was atrocious.

    It's Wonder Woman. I don't follow or read Wonder Woman because want to see more dudes. There are plenty of other books with an abundance of dude characters.
    I'm actually talking about good male characters, not Soap opera level cliche "long lost brother no one talked about till now," level stuff.

  11. #11
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    They are still derivative characters of Batman that exist primarily in his orbit and share his editors. To me that makes them part of the Batman franchise. Major changes to the Batman status quo would affect them, and most of them don't really have many villains of their own and rely heavily on using Batman's rogue gallery.
    If you are talking about create some male Wonder Woman's counterpart, there are two great problems to solve: the first one is that we already have character like Superman or Shazam, who are almost omnipotent superheroes, so it is difficult to create another interesting character of that kind, the second one is that it is difficult to justify a male counterpart of an heroine who is an amazon, because male amazons can't exist; you might use some mithological character like Hercules, but in this way you risk to have problems wit the concept itself of Wonder Woman, that was meant to be the some sort of feminist superheroine.
    Last edited by Gotham citizen; 02-28-2020 at 02:30 PM.

  12. #12
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    I think the more apt diagnosis is that Wonder Woman just needs more readers. Period. It's think its wrong to say that she needs to appeal more to men and therefore introduce more male characters. What I do think needs to happen with the character is that DC just needs to invest in her the way they have with her male counterparts.

    Wonder Woman has always been treated as somewhat of a fringe character, at least as much as a character of her fame can be treated as a fringe character. She's received very little attention in comparison to Superman and Batman. None of her supporting characters have ever been given solo titles. She's not been at the center of universe-wide events since maybe the 80s. She hasn't gotten nearly as many animated adaptations as Superman or Batman have gotten. And, most important, DC never makes a big deal of the things happening in her title.

    Furthermore, while some very talented creators have worked on her title, DC never really gives them the same superstar treatment given to Batman or Superman writers. Look at how they rolled out the red carpet for Bendis when he started writing Superman or for Tom King when he started his Batman run. Likewise, there's so much fanfare over Batman runs/stories of the past, like Grant Morrison's and Scott Snyder's. I've never seen a Wonder Woman writer get that much attention. That's telling of how DC's leadership over the past several years views the character. They see her as that "other" iconic character, but the one who isn't capable of supporting her own franchise, so they throw all of their time and effort behind the other two that they think can (and admittedly, behind one more than the other). I can't help but think there's a little bit of misogyny at play there.

    All of this is even compounded by the fact that recent history has shown that the general public is capable of getting on the Wonder Woman train. She can support her own franchise. I mean, the blockbuster that made more $800 million worldwide and served as the first real victory for the DCEU would seem to suggest so.

  13. #13
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    ...it is difficult to justify a male counterpart of an heroine who is an amazon, because male amazons can't exist
    There's an entire fist fight on the WW forums over that notion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    ...you might use some mithological character like Hercules, but in this way you risk to have problems wit the concept itself of Wonder Woman, that was meant to be the some sort of feminist superheroine.
    ^This^ point is the real crux of the issue. At her core, WW is about feminine power. It's hard to serve that narrative with a male sidekick with any more wattage than Trevor.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I like Trevor a lot, too. I don't know how he's doing in the books these days, but the basic premise of a male Lois Lane always worked for me.

    I don't know what kind of boy could possibly be Wonder Woman's Supergirl though, or even if that'd work in any way. I guess some demigod kid (like Diana) who has to unlearn toxic behavior (unlike Diana)? That's just a stray thought, I have no idea if it'd work or not.
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  15. #15
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    […]
    At her core, WW is about feminine power.
    […]
    Yes and that is the core of the question: while the Batman is defined by his crusade against the criminality, so he can have all kind of supporting characters and/or counterparts, Wonder Woman is defined by her be woman, a woman able to do everything Superman can do and this limits the possibility to create a supporting character and/or a counterpart for her, above all because the most successful counterparts aren't the ones who are a simply variant of the original hero, but the ones who are totally different.
    Look to Batman: who is his greatest counterpart?
    Batwoman? No.
    Nightwing? No.
    Azrael? No.
    Catwoman! The only ones able to bring into question everything Batman is and what would happen to Wonder Woman's franchise, if someone created a character able to put into question everything Wonder Woman is?
    Last edited by Gotham citizen; 02-28-2020 at 02:58 PM.

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