Are we, as DC fans, 'jealous of the Marvel Cinematic Universe?

[Rincewind]

I mean, this was the crux of my point. If BvS was such a disaster why was Snyder allowed to work on a sequel? Sure, he had already started working on the project, but they could have gotten rid off him.

I never called it a disaster. I said financial disappointment. These are different terms with different meaning. You are changing my actual words to pretend I'm making a different argument.

Your point on not replacing Snyder completely overlooks the fact that SNYDER WAS REPLACED! The planned 5 movie series Snyder said he had was abandoned. The studio mandated a shorter run time not to exceed 2 hours. And the replacement director reworked the plot and changed the tone of the movie. Why do you think this happened? Do you honestly think the studio made these changes if they thought the BvS had met or exceeded their expectations? I honestly want to know what you think drove the studio decisions.

I'm sure he was concerned about the critical and fan backlash, not the dollar bills.

I remember watching Christopher Nolan over a decade ago saying that the success of Batman Begins pretty much allowed him to have 'infinite' resources when making Dark Knight. Batman Begins only made 373.4 million dollars at the cost of 150 million. This was also a major shortfall when compared to how much Batman 89 made $411.6 million (or about a billion dollars today when adjusted for inflation) at the cost of 35 million dollars. I don't think these studios really get that upset when films don't make above and beyond their budget.

The last Batman movie prior to Batman Begins was Batman and Robin. The BO for Batman and Robin was $107 million domestic and $131 million international for a total of $238 million. Batman Begins had a BO of $207 million, $166 million international, and $373 million total. It was a clear improvement over the last Batman movie. Comparing Batman Begins to Batman (89) and only Batman (89) overlooks the fact that Batman Begins not only did better than the last Batman movie to come out, it also did better than Batman Returns and Batman Forever.

BvS had a budget of $250 million with WW gross of $874 million. The previous 2 Batman movies were The Dark Knight (Budget $185 million, WW gross $1.009 Billion) and The Dark Knight Rises (budget $250 million, WW gross $1.081 Billion). BvS had the first live action team up of Superman and Batman, plus Wonder Woman, setting up the Justice League team up movie. But it still had lower BO than the last 2 Batman movies. This is a financial disappointment. It is not a flop or failure because it did not lose money. But it did not do as well as the studio wanted.

This is not a criticism of the movie on any artistic merit. But it is clear that the financial performance of the series had an impact on the DC movies going forward.

[skyvolt2000]

Maybe when people were still in denial about SS, or before they had even watched it, but I can't imagine people are saying that nowadays. BO numbers shouldn't matter at all when discussing the quality of film.

Sorry but it is.

Especially when it's used against films with POC and females as the leads.

Because too many folks have kept jobs despite making horrible films on the basis of BOX OFFICE-see Tyler Perry & Michael Bay.

Years after they put out trash movies they are defended based on box office.

[Blind Wedjat]

People pick and choose when they want to use box office success as a measure of overall success and quality. The same people that discount it for the MCU are the same ones that bring it up to defend DCEU movies like BvS and Suicide Squad.

Continued or increasing box office success in the long run is an indicator that a franchise is still doing something right. The only other ones aside from the MCU I can think of are the Harry Potter films and the Fast & Furious series. Other franchises like the Transformers series saw dwindling success in that area because each subsequent film was worse than the last.

Box office success is one measure of success and can be used to support overall quality but it isn't even the only one the MCU can brag about if it wanted to. On average, almost every MCU film has been acclaimed or at least been positively reviewed by critics and audiences. The franchise has been a mainstay in the popular culture zeitgeist for more than a decade, has influenced other franchises (including the one we're talking about) and has many awards including three Academy Awards.

Of course I know having said this someone is ready to retort that "critics are biased or have been paid off" and posit that none of those accolades were truly earned, so there's no point arguing.

[Jekyll]

Not at all. Marvel, specifically Kevin Feige, had a vision and brought that vision to life! Marvel was smart enough to not interfere and you have a booming success.

No one at DC has a vision and WB can do nothing but interfere. Furthermore, WB seems to only want to make Batman films.............so you have a crop of mediocre to bad films with the exceptions of Wonder Woman (who did have a leader with a vision and the backbone to tell WB to F*** off), Shazam, and even though I didn't care for it, Aquaman (which was a financial success).

[SiegePerilous02]

Of course I know having said this someone is ready to retort that "critics are biased or have been paid off" and posit that none of those accolades were truly earned, so there's no point arguing.

If it happens, you can always counter that the MCU hasn't run into the problem of a random ass Melissa McCarthy movie doing better at the BO one week compared to a movie with f***ing Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman in it.

[AtheistInRed]

As long as Hack Snyder doesn't get anywhere near the DCEU, DC fans won't have any reason to be jealous.

[Hatut Zeraze]

If it happens, you can always counter that the MCU hasn't run into the problem of a random ass Melissa McCarthy movie doing better at the BO one week compared to a movie with f***ing Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman in it.

Yeah, but that's Melissa McCarthy.

[manwhohaseverything]

If it happens, you can always counter that the MCU hasn't run into the problem of a random ass Melissa McCarthy movie doing better at the BO one week compared to a movie with f***ing Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman in it.

They could say the mellissa mccarthy movie didn't have things pulled out that made it choppy,less sense... Etc. Regardless, bvs wouldn't be some kind of crowd pleaser. It would always be niche.

[Dr. Skeleton]

If it happens, you can always counter that the MCU hasn't run into the problem of a random ass Melissa McCarthy movie doing better at the BO one week compared to a movie with f***ing Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman in it.

That was the ultimate slap in the face and compelled me to avoid anything with McCarthy in it.