If You Wrote Comics: Superman

[Kuwagaton]

Yeah but with science fiction you have to come up with enough science that maybe fake but sensible enough to allow anyone to suspend their disbelief and accept this thing as plausible. I mean going by the solar battery concept alone doesn't really explain how Superman can fly, have super and freeze breath, super hearing, X-ray vision, micro vision, and telescopic vision. If i recall the fill in writer who did the Sinestro and Superman story made it as thought being underground for extended periods of time would deprive Superman of his powers.

YMMV. I say at best it's not so much science as it's phrases that sound good, as there are no figures explained. Frankly any phrase works for me as long as the ball is rolling and we're getting good stories. Rather than fudge those figures I'd rather study the psychology behind why so many generations of kids have whizzed around the house with towels pinned to their shoulders and tap into some of that.

But yeah man, you gotta get the right people for the right story. And if a writer can't handle big, over-the-top stuff, they're *probably* not a great fit for Superman. Of course, that depends on the kind of story you're telling too. Max Landis did amazing things with American Alien because he found a way into the character that fit his writing style. Kuwagaton might not do the crazy big idea stuff, but could maybe pull off a solid "triangle era" type story based in Metropolis (just as an example because he mentioned his preferences a post or two above, I know nothing about him or his writing ability or anything).

But if you can't match the talent to the IP, you're gonna have problems. And Superman is a tricky one. He's not just "standard superhero" fare where he protects his city and fights supervillain bank robbers while protecting his secret identity. He's bigger than just that (not that there's anything wrong with the standard superhero fare either). He's science fantasy (not science fiction; Supes goes beyond even Star Trek levels of rationalization) and that's a tough line to walk.

I have to admit that as a fan I have two lifelong projects. One is years away but there's essentially nothing stopping me as I don't need help to complete it. The other is writing Superman. So like, many of us spend hours within a week exchanging insight on Superman across various mediums. Typically over the course of years. I'm only 30, but Superman does indeed go back before anything I know short of the English language and basic math. You can't study something like that over decades, no matter how casually, and not have bounced around enough to put into writing.

I'd probably be a crummy comic writer though, because it seems like all the pros like writing other stuff. That helps them get better and get enough recognition for a big job. I don't care at all about writing comics, just Superman, so it's pretty likely I won't make it there. But I'll gladly let anyone at DC know that if they get back to the original Kon origin instead of Lex/Superman (in writing, permanently), they can have one of my kidneys.

[The Dying Detective]

YMMV. I say at best it's not so much science as it's phrases that sound good, as there are no figures explained. Frankly any phrase works for me as long as the ball is rolling and we're getting good stories. Rather than fudge those figures I'd rather study the psychology behind why so many generations of kids have whizzed around the house with towels pinned to their shoulders and tap into some of that.

I mean sure sounding good is one thing but you also have to remember that your readers aren't stupid and you have to at least trick them into accepting that the science is some what plausible. Also i did not know there were still fans out there who did not like the change to Conner Kent's origin. I'm actually one of the people who like it more over the original origin.

[The Dying Detective]

Agree completely. Time is money and as you said not many have the luxury of doing the research as well as having Morrison's gift for writing powerful heroes though it also wouldn't hurt to do a little digging to see what makes the character tick. It'll help go a long way for the writer.

Also agree with Rogal Zaar and his other new characters let's hope they stick around I like them.

Maybe Marvel and DC should introduce a training course that help their writers be more familiar with th characters they are writing for. Well it's too soon to see whether Rogol Zaar will be better than Black Zero or how many of the new Bendis characters will be hits but we'll see.

[Ascended]

YMMV. I say at best it's not so much science as it's phrases that sound good, as there are no figures explained. Frankly any phrase works for me as long as the ball is rolling and we're getting good stories. Rather than fudge those figures I'd rather study the psychology behind why so many generations of kids have whizzed around the house with towels pinned to their shoulders and tap into some of that.

This is why I think Clark falls under "science fantasy" instead of "science fiction." There are things in his mythos that just defy all conventional scientific knowledge, and they work best when they're unknown factors that're practically magical. It's the difference between Star Trek and Star Wars (and Doctor Who). And as long as something "sounds good" in a sci-fi-y way, it doesn't have to have any basis at all in real theory.

I have to admit that as a fan I have two lifelong projects. One is years away but there's essentially nothing stopping me as I don't need help to complete it. The other is writing Superman. So like, many of us spend hours within a week exchanging insight on Superman across various mediums. Typically over the course of years. I'm only 30, but Superman does indeed go back before anything I know short of the English language and basic math. You can't study something like that over decades, no matter how casually, and not have bounced around enough to put into writing.

I don't really consider myself much of a writer and I have very little interest in writing any DC or Marvel character. But Superman is the exception. Getting my hands on the character is a lifelong dream. It'll never happen of course, but I refuse to let the dream die completely.

Admitedly one of those character who I think are the easiest to hook a writer into writing is Batman really. And you'd think that Batman would be more nuanced than Superman but then you have people like Grant Morrison who reveal that he think of Superman in a very nuanced way unlike the general public who think of him in a very unnuanced way. Most were hoping that Bendis would get a street level hero because that's what he's most known for writing. But instead he chose Superman who has left behind those roots.

I find it intriguing the discrepancies between Clark and Bruce and how the general public view them. Everyone thinks that Batman is the loner, but they're wrong. Everyone thinks Batman is the "deep" one, but he's really not all that complicated. Clark's the real loner, and far more layered than Bruce is. Which isn't to say that Bruce is a bad character because of that; a good character doesn't need to be complex. But I do believe that Superman requires you pay more attention, have less hubris, and put a little more thought into the work (both as the audience and the creator).

[Assam]

Getting my hands on the character is a lifelong dream. It'll never happen of course, but I refuse to let the dream die completely.

Words I live by: "Do the impossible! See the invisible! Row! Row! Fight the power! Touch the untouchable! Break the unbreakable! Row! Row! Fight the power!"

I have every intention of making it to the Big 2 one day, no matter what the odds are. Writing Superman is your dream? Then it should be a matter of "when" not "if". If you're walking down the right path, you'll get to your destination eventually. You just have to start walking.

[Ascended]

Words I live by: "Do the impossible! See the invisible! Row! Row! Fight the power! Touch the untouchable! Break the unbreakable! Row! Row! Fight the power!"

I have every intention of making it to the Big 2 one day, no matter what the odds are. Writing Superman is your dream? Then it should be a matter of "when" not "if". If you're walking down the right path, you'll get to your destination eventually. You just have to start walking.

I appreciate the support, but I'm actually chasing down another dream. Those two goals might quasi-intersect someday perhaps, but I won't pursue both at once. As Ron Swanson said, "Don't half ass two things. Whole ass one thing."

Words to live by.

I'm nearly finished with my business degree, and from there it's launching a small online publishing company, so you never know. Someday maybe I'll meet the right people and get my mitts on Superman. But I'm more interested in building my own label, being my own boss, and exploring distribution avenues more lucrative than the direct market.

I wish you all the luck making it to the Big 2. Maybe someday I'll see you there. Or steal all your customers to my publisher, bwahahaha!

[Assam]

I appreciate the support, but I'm actually chasing down another dream. Those two goals might quasi-intersect someday perhaps, but I won't pursue both at once. As Ron Swanson said, "Don't half ass two things. Whole ass one thing."

Words to live by.

Love Ron Swanson and those are words I often wish I could live by. Because of my attention span being shorter than a pygmy monkey though, I've ended up as very much a red mage when it comes to my skills. Jack of all trades, master of none.

I'm nearly finished with my business degree, and from there it's launching a small online publishing company, so you never know. Someday maybe I'll meet the right people and get my mitts on Superman. But I'm more interested in building my own label, being my own boss, and exploring distribution avenues more lucrative than the direct market.

Oh damn, that's awesome dude. Best of luck! And if you're up and running in two years, let me know if there are any job openings

[Ascended]

Love Ron Swanson and those are words I often wish I could live by. Because of my attention span being shorter than a pygmy monkey though, I've ended up as very much a red mage when it comes to my skills. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Fifteen Awesome Points* for the Final Fantasy reference!

*Awesome Points are redeemable at none of your local outlets and cannot be traded for goods or services.

Oh damn, that's awesome dude. Best of luck! And if you're up and running in two years, let me know if there are any job openings

Ha, I've been slowly putting together a couple creative teams for a while actually. But I do have room for a few more projects. If you're really interested, send me a pm and we'll talk.

[Kuwagaton]

This is why I think Clark falls under "science fantasy" instead of "science fiction." There are things in his mythos that just defy all conventional scientific knowledge, and they work best when they're unknown factors that're practically magical. It's the difference between Star Trek and Star Wars (and Doctor Who). And as long as something "sounds good" in a sci-fi-y way, it doesn't have to have any basis at all in real theory.

Yeah, if I had to sum it up, I'd say it's still just magic to us, but science within the world of the story. We merely need to know why they think it's science, but not understand it with real science.

It'll never happen of course, but I refuse to let the dream die completely.

My real idea on this is just getting to be like, 50 and well reputed so that when I send them something, I look credible. "Why is a physical therapist sending us a Superman pitch? He must really mean it for some reason."

I find it intriguing the discrepancies between Clark and Bruce and how the general public view them. Everyone thinks that Batman is the loner, but they're wrong. Everyone thinks Batman is the "deep" one, but he's really not all that complicated. Clark's the real loner, and far more layered than Bruce is. Which isn't to say that Bruce is a bad character because of that; a good character doesn't need to be complex.

My "problem" with Batman, as a reader and as someone who would consider their own approach to the character, was pretty well summarized by Falcone.



I'm sure there's something like this to be done with Superman, but well, I know too much to let it go without a fight.

I mean sure sounding good is one thing but you also have to remember that your readers aren't stupid and you have to at least trick them into accepting that the science is some what plausible. Also i did not know there were still fans out there who did not like the change to Conner Kent's origin. I'm actually one of the people who like it more over the original origin.

It'd be too popular to throw under the bus if I wanted to, which I don't. But even considering the vast changes that the market has seen in 20 years, I think it's pretty apparent that the character went from having his own spin-offs to the point where DC is just pretending he doesn't exist. Despite Johns being in one of the highest creative seats available and the YJ cartoon providing a template to make him a thing.

There's a lot of good to be said of the big, shocking, high concept twists and retoolings we see employed in comics. Short term or long term gain, gain is just a good thing. But it has to be measured because it's pretty counter intuitive to this medium. If you say, tell "the last Superman story" it can be very powerful, but it won't be the actual last story. After you blow your wad, the characters go on. So Superboy got this heavy high concept and it worked for a few years, but what else is there to say about him? His past was in the past, now it's kind of who he is. I think it broke the character tbh.

[Ascended]

My real idea on this is just getting to be like, 50 and well reputed so that when I send them something, I look credible. "Why is a physical therapist sending us a Superman pitch? He must really mean it for some reason."

Can you even just send in a pitch and have it looked at these days? I thought we were beyond that point. I thought the only way to get employment at the Big 2 now was to either impress editors on indie stuff or make friends with them?

Honestly, it seems easier to create a whole new business than to find employment with DC or Marvel.

My "problem" with Batman, as a reader and as someone who would consider their own approach to the character, was pretty well summarized by Falcone.



I'm sure there's something like this to be done with Superman, but well, I know too much to let it go without a fight.

The only Bat story I have in me that I think is worth anything at all, is exploring the idea of why the US is full of powerful metahumans in every major city, except Gotham. I mean, you look at other cities and they're over-run with superhumans. But Gotham has what, Clayface, Man-Bat, and Croc?

There's gotta be a reason for that. And it certainly isn't fear of Gotham's established criminals. Some evil dude with enough raw power to challenge Superman or Flash isn't going to be intimidated by some insane nutjob who's only claim to fame is committing weird gimmick murders. And it's not fear of Batman either. A villain confident enough to challenge Kryptonians isn't going to avoid Gotham because of a regular dude dressed up like a flying rat. So my story would just be about some Omega level metahuman showing up in Gotham and deciding that the city now belongs to him.

[Assam]

Can you even just send in a pitch and have it looked at these days? I thought we were beyond that point. I thought the only way to get employment at the Big 2 now was to either impress editors on indie stuff or make friends with them?

That is correct. No one at DC or Marvel is even legally allowed to look at unsolicited submissions.

[The Dying Detective]

I find it intriguing the discrepancies between Clark and Bruce and how the general public view them. Everyone thinks that Batman is the loner, but they're wrong. Everyone thinks Batman is the "deep" one, but he's really not all that complicated. Clark's the real loner, and far more layered than Bruce is. Which isn't to say that Bruce is a bad character because of that; a good character doesn't need to be complex. But I do believe that Superman requires you pay more attention, have less hubris, and put a little more thought into the work (both as the audience and the creator).

I guess it comes from Batman's mysterious avenger of the night thing that fascinates a lot of people more so than Superman who is generally straight forward as a character despite keeping some secrets. Yeha you have a point being an alien on Earth does make Clark more of a loner than Bruce at least it was the case until Kara, Conner, and Jon came on to the scene. While it's true that Superman is a tricky character to manage write him wrongly and he'll be boring. Admittedly though I think the one out of all the Trinity that would be the hardest to write is actually Wonder Woman because there are so many things to her that make tricky. In Post-Crisis it was because she would kill when necessary for one thing. And according to my friend Nightdreamer she is still somewhat stuck in the Golden Age unlike Superman and Batman who have left it. And Grant Morrison even said unlike them she has no clear message.

[The Dying Detective]

It'd be too popular to throw under the bus if I wanted to, which I don't. But even considering the vast changes that the market has seen in 20 years, I think it's pretty apparent that the character went from having his own spin-offs to the point where DC is just pretending he doesn't exist. Despite Johns being in one of the highest creative seats available and the YJ cartoon providing a template to make him a thing.

There's a lot of good to be said of the big, shocking, high concept twists and retoolings we see employed in comics. Short term or long term gain, gain is just a good thing. But it has to be measured because it's pretty counter intuitive to this medium. If you say, tell "the last Superman story" it can be very powerful, but it won't be the actual last story. After you blow your wad, the characters go on. So Superboy got this heavy high concept and it worked for a few years, but what else is there to say about him? His past was in the past, now it's kind of who he is. I think it broke the character tbh.

Well that could change actually considering how the real Conner got shown in Super Sons of Tomorrow showed that he and the rest of the Young Justice group do exist in some capacity. With big plans for Tim Drake as mentioned by James Tynion the IV it could also involve his old friend especially when Johns has stepped on the gas and brought back many old and obscure DC characters from limbo. It's also unusual that Johns isn't working more to push Conner as he obviously liked him enough to do that change.

I mean sure you could say that shocking things can be damaging for a character but on the other hand in the case of Conner despite falling into depression because of this revelation he was still allowed to bounce back and became the happy teen he was before. So I would not say it damaged him entirely.

[Ascended]

I guess it comes from Batman's mysterious avenger of the night thing that fascinates a lot of people more so than Superman who is generally straight forward as a character despite keeping some secrets. Yeha you have a point being an alien on Earth does make Clark more of a loner than Bruce at least it was the case until Kara, Conner, and Jon came on to the scene. While it's true that Superman is a tricky character to manage write him wrongly and he'll be boring. Admittedly though I think the one out of all the Trinity that would be the hardest to write is actually Wonder Woman because there are so many things to her that make tricky. In Post-Crisis it was because she would kill when necessary for one thing. And according to my friend Nightdreamer she is still somewhat stuck in the Golden Age unlike Superman and Batman who have left it. And Grant Morrison even said unlike them she has no clear message.

I definitely agree that Diana is likely the hardest to write among the Trinity. She's such a wonderful character (no pun intended) with so many layers and nuance. I still struggle to really get the deepest parts of the character, and I've read more Wonder Woman than most titles.

I disagree about Clark being a loner until Kara and the rest showed up though. Look at the history. Batman actively brings in young sidekicks and wards. He collects them, keeps them close, trains them, and treats them like sons (he doesnt seem to bond as well with the girls). I'd never say that Bruce is a good father, but he actively tries to be the best father he's capable of, and as Tim Drake noticed, Bruce *needs* that family around him, or he starts to go off the deep end.

Now look at Clark. When Kara arrived, she didn't move in with Clark. She didn't get much training from him. He forced her to keep her presence a secret for I don't know how long. The more modern versions have him shipping her off to Themyscria, the Kents (in the DCAU), and I don't even know who in the current title; some foster spy family or something. Clark barely had a relationship with Conner for years. With Jon, yeah DC is treating Clark like he's the Father of the Year, but that's actually a characterization that goes against his history, and we never got to see the learning curve either. Jon just showed up at ten years old so Clark's had a lot of time to adjust and learn.

Then look at the people Clark and Bruce bring into their lives. Most of Clark's friends are either friends with "Superman" (like John Henry Irons) or "Clark" (like Perry). And most of his "close" friends have no idea that Clark and Superman are the same person. He keeps everyone at arm's length, even his friends, with only a few small exceptions. Bruce has far more people who know both sides of his life.

Hell, it's in the name of their respective headquarters; Clark has a "Fortress of Solitude." Bats has a cave named after and inspired by animals who live in large family groups.

[Ascended]

That is correct. No one at DC or Marvel is even legally allowed to look at unsolicited submissions.

So you said you were interested in writing for the Big 2, how does a person go about that now? Just write for the indies until you get noticed? Stalk conventions, follow the talent to the bar afterwards and strike up a conversation? Is there a form you have to fill out to get an editor to look at your work?

Seriously, it seems so much easier to start a company from whole-cloth than to get these publishers' attention.