Can Captain America even admit that even HE has a dark side/flaw to him ?

[Cmbmool]

I like the idea of Secret Empire, but I didn't enjoy how it ended with two Captain Americas/Steve Rogers in the world. I wanted it to end with one Steve Rogers restored and struggling with the idea of him having a far off dark side and maybe seeing the likes of how Tony Stark and Scott Summers dealt with their darker impulses in them and getting to the point of understanding them better as heroes and as people.

I mean also a major flaw of Captain America is his stubbornness and his unwillingness to admit when he was wrong only to see it when the destruction gets to much via Civil War 1...Time Runs out was just sad. His flaw of seeing things through even though it would ruin him in the process.

As fans of Captain America: What do you think of this ?

[MichaelC]

The thing is, it's clear that most writers don't think he has a dark side. They write him as always 100% right, and if someone dares to disagree with him, you can expect that character to be utterly humiliated before the story is over. It's to the point that I've come to dread Captain America appearances in any group setting, because I know I'll have to endure either every character in the story being utterly sycophantic towards him, or get utterly humiliated for daring to disagree with the utterly perfect in every way, never wrong Steve Rogers.

[Anthony W]

I mean also a major flaw of Captain America is his stubbornness and his unwillingness to admit when he was wrong only to see it when the destruction gets to much via Civil War

I'm willing to toss Civil War and it's terrible characterization down the memory hole. It's one of those stories that made a lot of cash but looks more and more awful with each passing year.

[Montressor]

I'm almost certain Zemo found Cap's stash of '40's-era porn back when he and the Masters of Evil ransacked the mansion long ago.

[Coin Biter]

His major flaws from my point of view are his incessant sanctimony and the fact that he's the kind of guy who calls other people "Mister". At least, that was what I thought his major flaws were in the 1980s

Nowadays it's the habit of Marvel using him as a focal figure in every hero vs hero event, which tends to load the moral argument, especially in the execrable A v X. Except Time Runs Out, I quite liked him in that, because he was beleaguered, suffered from tunnel vision, and was largely ineffectual. Which I guess constitute fairly important flaws.

[EmeraldGladiator]

I have a strong feeling that he will when T.Coates takes over as the writer. Having read a lot of his work outside of comics I can't imagine his Captain will be the square jawed perfect never doubting he wears the whitest hat version of Steve.

[Huntsman Spider]

I have a strong feeling that he will when T.Coates takes over as the writer. Having read a lot of his work outside of comics I can't imagine his Captain will be the square jawed perfect never doubting he wears the whitest hat version of Steve.

Especially since Coates's first order of business on Cap will be dealing with the fallout of Secret Empire and everything it implied, if not outright stated, about the dark side of America.

[Michael Watkins]

that first Nomad costume suggests at least a kinky side.

[Jman27]

I feel like he has a dark side it just not prominent as his fellow heroes. And I feel like Marvel don’t really want to spend to much time with that and they probably won’t for a while because of secret empire. And I agree with you that it should have been just one Captain America not two. Cause we now see how the good one has pretty much has pass for all that has happened.

[Cmbmool]

I feel like he has a dark side it just not prominent as his fellow heroes. And I feel like Marvel don’t really want to spend to much time with that and they probably won’t for a while because of secret empire. And I agree with you that it should have been just one Captain America not two. Cause we now see how the good one has pretty much has pass for all that has happened.

When someone like Deadpool calls you out on your previous actions, then you know you’ve screwed up. The one few good things that Gerry Duggan did in the Post-Secret Empire world that the other writers wouldn’t do.

[Zero Hunter]

The thing is, it's clear that most writers don't think he has a dark side. They write him as always 100% right, and if someone dares to disagree with him, you can expect that character to be utterly humiliated before the story is over. It's to the point that I've come to dread Captain America appearances in any group setting, because I know I'll have to endure either every character in the story being utterly sycophantic towards him, or get utterly humiliated for daring to disagree with the utterly perfect in every way, never wrong Steve Rogers.

This more than anything. Cap has been a victim of bad writing for a very long time now. Writers feel this need to make him perfect and never wrong all the time, and it has hurt the character quite a bit. At his heart Steve is just a really good guy who always tries to do what he thinks is the right thing. Modern writers have switched it around so it is not what he thinks is right it is that everything he does IS right, and to disagree with Cap makes you on the wrong side.

Cap was never meant to be the be all and end all of everything right in the world. He is just a skinny guy who got the chance to help other little guys and help people in trouble.

[Flash Gordon]

I mean Ultimate Captain America was low key pretty fascist and he was awful to read about. I prefer the regular, plain old "Captain America proper" to be straight forward. An FDR-era progressive.

I actually like him having a learning curve. Ideas don't come easy to him but he learns through action. So he's not really a "dark" guy, or someone who thinks about stuff a ton. He has doubts but they do not DEFINE him. He's not Batman with 45 contingency plans (he's also not as effective as Batman). He sees something that he doesn't like and he tries to fix it. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't, but he learns from it.

I think that's what puts Tony and Steve at odds. Iron Man is a deep thinker, full of doubts and big ideas. He's loud and drinks too much. He's mad and brilliant. Steve is quiet and doesn't overdo it. He is the guy you want with you in the arena, though. He won't leave you behind and he won't surrender.

So no, I don't think the answer is to make Captain America "dark" or introspective about his role. I think the interesting play would be to insert Captain America into situations that he can't just punch his way out of. Place him stories that aren't easy and that are introspective. He remains the same but the song around him is on a different key, ya know? This is why THE WINTER SOLIDER worked so well. It questions everything about the concept of a "Captain America" and puts him in a morally frustrated world that resembles our own, but doesn't compromise "him" as a character.

This is also why SECRET EMPIRE failed- well, one of many reasons.

[Anthony W]

I mean Ultimate Captain America was low key pretty fascist and he was awful to read about. I prefer the regular, plain old "Captain America proper" to be straight forward. FDR era progressive.

I actually like him having a learning curve. Ideas don't come easy to him but he learns through action. So he's not really a "dark" guy, or someone who thinks about stuff a ton. He has doubts but they do not DEFINE him. He's not Batman with 45 contingency plans (he's also not as effective as Batman). He sees something that he doesn't like and he tries to fix it. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't, but he learns from it.

I think that's what puts Tony and Steve at odds. Iron Man is a deep thinker, full of doubts and big ideas. He's loud and drinks too much. He's mad and brilliant. Steve is the guy you want with you in the arena, though. He won't leave you behind and he won't surrender.

This! And what does that say about the talent and readers? I always find it strange that Cap was tossed into the boring pile along with Superman and Cyclops just because he...knew what he was doing and kept the drama to a minimum?

[Flash Gordon]

Exactly. Captain America doesn't really do drama. You have to put the drama around him. Even relationship drama, it can be there but he's a straight talker. He's not going to withhold information and he's not going to lie and cheat. So the drama can wrap around him, narratively- but it shouldn't become his character.

Batman is going to only act after he has assessed the situation and deduced a way to win. Steve is going to wing it. He's a very capable, strong dude...but he's going to wing the hell out of it. Toss the mighty shield of his and hope to god he doesn't miss. If he does miss? Well, I guess he'll start punching.

[Tony Stark]

The thing is, it's clear that most writers don't think he has a dark side. They write him as always 100% right, and if someone dares to disagree with him, you can expect that character to be utterly humiliated before the story is over. It's to the point that I've come to dread Captain America appearances in any group setting, because I know I'll have to endure either every character in the story being utterly sycophantic towards him, or get utterly humiliated for daring to disagree with the utterly perfect in every way, never wrong Steve Rogers.

A lot of good points here.