Can Captain America even admit that even HE has a dark side/flaw to him ?

[Snoop Dogg]

Nitro has no morals and doesn't care, but it was the NW's fault for knowing who they were dealing with and not immediately removing him from play when they were in a neighborhood. Looking at that and deciding that regulation would be required is fair.

Tony went too far, he knew it was too far, he thought it would be worth it because it would quickly create his ideal future of organized heroes with a free off-world prison for villains, he then found out it was not personally worth it, and then he later suffered even more severely for it as what he worked for was compromised. It's a big arc that is kickstarted by his established history as a big picture thinker who would take matters into his own hands to solve a perceived problem, even if it costs him in the present, even if it costs him his friendships. But he didn't anticipate it would literally cost him friends.

[Michael Watkins]

Nitro has no morals and doesn't care, but it was the NW's fault for knowing who they were dealing with and not immediately removing him from play when they were in a neighborhood. Looking at that and deciding that regulation would be required is fair.

Tony went too far, he knew it was too far

he went as far as he needed to with Steve leading the opposition. going too far would have been to kill Steve, himself. instead, it was Rogers having to be pulled off of Iron Man by the civilians he claimed to represent. Tony tried to thwart the Act by having Titanium Man attack him in public. it didn't work. so he switched tactics. when you're playing at that level, friends are a luxury. Steve should have backed Tony's play. the public would have been back on their side by the end of Secret Invasion. conversely, if Stark had decided to go fugitive with Steve, it would have been Gyrich, the Thunderbolts, and/or Helmut Zemo that SHIELD worked with. we've seen that they can seize Tony's weaponry/attack him through his businesses.

[Michael Watkins]

It's not self defense when you're a criminal.

that's the justification for Iron Man coming down hard on the anti-reg side. it's the justification for throwing a bunch of supervillains into Pleasant Hill, too.

[Michael Watkins]

I think it's weird that regular cops in the MU don't have those SPIN tech weapons.

Actually that would make a good Daredevil story. Where a cop shoots someone and takes their powers because he was scared, but the person doesn't actually do anything.

it'll happen to mutants, first.

[KOSLOX]

it'll happen to mutants, first.

Sure, maybe it could be an X-Factor(or whatever the "street" X-Men book at the time is)/Daredevil crossover.

[Agent Z]

that's the justification for Iron Man coming down hard on the anti-reg side. it's the justification for throwing a bunch of supervillains into Pleasant Hill, too.

Trying to apprehend a criminal (even in a manner as irresponsibly and incompetently as the New Warriors did) is not even remotely like brainwashing people or throwing them into a hellish dimension without trial.

Also, self defense doesn't include the murder of 600 other people who aren't attacking you.

[capandkirby]

he went as far as he needed to with Steve leading the opposition. going too far would have been to kill Steve, himself. instead, it was Rogers having to be pulled off of Iron Man by the civilians he claimed to represent. Tony tried to thwart the Act by having Titanium Man attack him in public. it didn't work. so he switched tactics.

Cap's side in Civil War wasn't representing civilians (although he does that as a general rule when his friend aren't being targeted specifically by a completely totalitarian law and there's a Civil War on-hand). He was trying to protect super-powered people from becoming the victims of MASSIVE human rights violations, like what happened during Hitler's regime. Once again, need I remind everyone that Cap is a WW2 veteran, who had witnessed Hitler's rise to power FIRST HAND. The crap that Stark and Richards were pulling hit ALL of the triggers that mirrored what Hitler did:

Knocking on peoples' doors in the middle of the night to force them to sign an unfair law or they lose their homes: check.
JessLuke.jpg
Prison conditions that aren't even fit for any living creature and denying medical care for drastically injured people, some with shrapnel in their backs thanks to SHIELD: check. (Dirt floors, no toilets, no beds, WTF?!)
negativezone.JPG
Trying to commit an extrajudicial killing of someone two weeks before aforementioned totalitarian law was even a law: check.
CapandHill.jpg

And there's a whole slew of more panels I can post but the there's a three image limit per post. Needless to say, Stark was acting like a freakin' Nazi. There were a million and one better ways to go about introducing regulation than how he chose to go about it. Stark's actions were indefensible.

[Michael Watkins]

Trying to apprehend a criminal (even in a manner as irresponsibly and incompetently as the New Warriors did) is not even remotely like brainwashing people or throwing them into a hellish dimension without trial.

Also, self defense doesn't include the murder of 600 other people who aren't attacking you.

ratings doesn't justify attacking a human bomb who isn't doing anything either.

[Michael Watkins]

Cap's side in Civil War wasn't representing civilians (although he does that as a general rule when his friend aren't being targeted specifically by a completely totalitarian law and there's a Civil War on-hand). He was trying to protect super-powered people from becoming the victims of MASSIVE human rights violations, like what happened during Hitler's regime. Once again, need I remind everyone that Cap is a WW2 veteran, who had witnessed Hitler's rise to power FIRST HAND. The crap that Stark and Richards were pulling hit ALL of the triggers that mirrored what Hitler did:

And there's a whole slew of more panels I can post but the there's a three image limit per post. Needless to say, Stark was acting like a freakin' Nazi. There were a million and one better ways to go about introducing regulation than how he chose to go about it. Stark's actions were indefensible.

you lose. thanks for playing.

[Agent Z]

ratings doesn't justify attacking a human bomb who isn't doing anything either.

Never said it did. Nitro still isn't an innocent victim and his response massively disproportionate to what is acceptable as self defense.

[capandkirby]

you lose. thanks for playing.

Not even close. You lose. Because you're wrong. And everyone on this thread knows it.

[Michael Watkins]

Never said it did. Nitro still isn't an innocent victim and his response massively disproportionate to what is acceptable as self defense.

yeah, well his punishment wasn't exactly by the book either.

Not even close. You lose. Because you're wrong. And everyone on this thread knows it.

and to think that you labeled me a narcissist.

[capandkirby]

yeah, well his punishment wasn't exactly by the book either.



and to think that you labeled me a narcissist.

Yup. Stand by it, too. Based on your behavior, you seemingly care more about the fictional characters you like (like Stark and Hydra!Cap) than actual, moral, right and wrong.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

...the public would have been back on their side by the end of Secret Invasion...

An event none of them knew about at that time. And had no influence or bearing on Tony's actions and judgment. It's entirely unrelated.

conversely, if Stark had decided to go fugitive with Steve, it would have been Gyrich, the Thunderbolts, and/or Helmut Zemo that SHIELD worked with. we've seen that they can seize Tony's weaponry/attack him through his businesses.

Norman Osborn ended up in charge anyway, so what was the point? It got undone in the end anyway.

[Michael Watkins]

Yup. Stand by it, too. Based on your behavior, you seemingly care more about the fictional characters you like (like Stark and Hydra!Cap) than actual, moral, right and wrong.

you're on a comic book hobby site talking about Hitler. go outside. get some fresh air.