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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Long hard push? They've been pushed for less than two years. I'd call Cyborg's push long and hard. Kyle was the main Lantern for a decade and it wasn't until Hal's return where they really pushed him to the side. Not even John's success on TV made them give up on Kyle at the time and that was when his sales were down too. I think only DC knows what basis they are pushing some of their characters on.
    Kyle is not in the same category as those characters. He sold Green Lantern pretty well for 10 years. If they were going to bring back Hal, they should have put Kyle in a team comic like Titans where he could have made a contribution.

    I know why they push John Stewart, Cyborg, Baz and Cruz. It's diversity. I also know why they push Aquaman. It's because he's always on the bubble of getting over, and they keep hoping they can get him there. And I say that as someone who wanted John on Justice League.

    When a title doesn't sell in this industry, you can't just put more popular people on it and think you've solved the problem. You have to change something about its content. Some old timers on the message board might throw fits when you change the content, but they've had their chance to buy it when it was done that way, and they didn't.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    The membership is which characters Snyder wanted to tell his stories with. He is a fan of the DCAU, that's why he wanted a roster similar to that version. Baz and Cruz aren't going anywhere.
    This.

    That other dude is just out of it.

  3. #78
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    Kyle is not in the same category as those characters. He sold Green Lantern pretty well for 10 years. If they were going to bring back Hal, they should have put Kyle in a team comic like Titans where he could have made a contribution.

    I know why they push John Stewart, Cyborg, Baz and Cruz. It's diversity. I also know why they push Aquaman. It's because he's always on the bubble of getting over, and they keep hoping they can get him there. And I say that as someone who wanted John on Justice League.

    When a title doesn't sell in this industry, you can't just put more popular people on it and think you've solved the problem. You have to change something about its content. Some old timers on the message board might throw fits when you change the content, but they've had their chance to buy it when it was done that way, and they didn't.
    Yeah, Kyle had been a Titan before.

    Jessica's going nowhere. She's still in A Justice League book, just not the primary one. She's also been added to DC Superhero Girls. I'm not sure where Simon's long term future is though.

  4. #79
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Morrison is the best Kyle Rayner writer ever so however much I can't wait to see what he does with the franchise in general, I really hope he concentrates on Kyle. With Kyle being an artist and being known for his imaginative constructs, he just seems like a better fit for Morisson's sensibilities than the others too.
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  5. #80
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    If Morrison takes over I will definitely check it out

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    Morrison is the best Kyle Rayner writer ever so however much I can't wait to see what he does with the franchise in general, I really hope he concentrates on Kyle. With Kyle being an artist and being known for his imaginative constructs, he just seems like a better fit for Morisson's sensibilities than the others too.
    He's a big Kyle fan. I'm not one, but I'm OK with that. The property shouldn't revolve around Hal. That just hasn't worked.

  7. #82
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    He's a big Kyle fan. I'm not one, but I'm OK with that. The property shouldn't revolve around Hal. That just hasn't worked.
    It's not like that was the reason there was a GL movie or anything.

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    The property doesn't revolve around just Hal, and hasn't for a while now. Otherwise Jess and Simon wouldn't have their own solo book AND be in the JL.

    Even when the property was at its healthiest with the Johns era and Hal as the lead, it didn't focus ONLY on him. There were multiple books at the time and enough space for everybody because the books were successful.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    It's not like that was the reason there was a GL movie or anything.
    What I meant was, Hal can sell a comic, but he can't sell an A comic with two or three B comics that revolve around it. If there are going to be two GL comics, then they have to be pretty much stand-alones. The second comic can't react when Hal hiccups.

    (I'm not counting Green Lanterns as a second GL comic, You have an idea about how that one will turn out and I have a different idea, but it's OK that we don't agree about it. The market will make that decision.)

  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    I don't think that we need to make this thread about who is the best lantern to carry the franchise, really is a pointless disscusion.

  11. #86
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    What I meant was, Hal can sell a comic, but he can't sell an A comic with two or three B comics that revolve around it. If there are going to be two GL comics, then they have to be pretty much stand-alones. The second comic can't react when Hal hiccups.
    I don't understand why Hal should be held accountable for that. As mentioned by SiegePerilous02 above, the franchise doesn't revolve just around him and even when he is used as the central figure it's not only him that you see everywhere Green Lantern is involved. If they did what you suggested once before and rebooted the GL franchise just with Hal from the start and didn't take off, that would be a different story, but series like GL or Flash have never operated that way. It was never just about one guy, they've always had different people carry the mantle over the years and decades. Hal being one of the guys DC always ends up falling back on is not the reason Jessica and Simon didn't take off in a bigger way.
    Last edited by Johnny; 04-22-2018 at 08:30 AM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I don't think that we need to make this thread about who is the best lantern to carry the franchise, really is a pointless disscusion.
    No Lantern should carry the franchise. That was a bad idea. My point was that as a fan of Kyle, Morrison won't make the property Hal-centric and keep announcing that "Hal is the greatest." That'll be a real change, and for me a welcome one.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    The market will make that decision.)
    Except it won't. Odds are the book will be ending in August or September at the same time as Hal 'N Pals, not because of sales or 'the market' but because DC wants to take the franchise in a different direction. Now Trey, I noticed during our most recent discussion, you didn't reply to a post of mine displaying how much of a success GLs has been, instead just choosing to continue spouting your belief that that DC is inflating the book's sales for...some reason. But I'm gonna give you another chance to make your case. I'm gonna repost what I said and give you the chance to make a rebuttal that doesn't involve baseless theories.

    "Is it an objective fact that, if given a new solo book, it would sell well? Not at all and we wouldn't have an answer until such a time occurred.

    But that's not what you said. You said you don't think that they "can" sell a comic when that's what they've been doing for the past two years. GLs will be one of only about a dozen or so Rebirth titles to hit 50 issues, currently at #45 it's still well above the danger zone and above plenty of other titles, including Green Arrow and Aquaman, and even if their book ends in August with #53 as part of a shake-up to the GL books, they'll still be tied with Steel for having the second longest POC lead solo book at DC."
    Last edited by Assam; 04-22-2018 at 08:11 AM.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Except it won't. Odds are the book will be ending in August or September at the same time as Hal 'N Pals, not because of sales or 'the market' but because DC wants to take the franchise in a different direction. Now Trey, I noticed during our most recent discussion, you didn't reply to a post of mine displaying how much of a success GLs has been, instead just choosing to continue spouting your belief that that DC is inflating the book's sales for...some reason. But I'm gonna give you another chance to make your case. I'm gonna repost what I said and give you the chance to make a rebuttal that doesn't involve baseless theories.

    "Is it an objective fact that, if given a new solo book, it would sell well? Not at all and we wouldn't have an answer until such a time occurred.

    But that's not what you said. You said you don't think that they "can" sell a comic when that's what they've been doing for the past two years. GLs will be one of only about a dozen or so Rebirth titles to hit 50 issues, currently at #45 it's still well above the danger zone and above plenty of other titles, including Green Arrow and Aquaman, and even if their book ends in August with #53 as part of a shake-up to the GL books, they'll still be tied with Steel for having the second longest POC lead solo book at DC."
    I don't regard staying in print for two years or even for four years as selling a comic. I regard staying in print as selling a comic. In another thread, a poster described selling 50 issues as an "epic" run, which I disputed. You don't need to agree with me about that.

    And again, I think the real sales for Green Lanterns are about 19K. I think they're doing the same thing they did with The New Guardians. If the sales were really 24K, I don't think they'd pull Baz and Cruz out of Justice League and end their comic, because they'd have created a success that starred two minority members. Why would they end it? On the contrary, they'd push it even harder. You don't need to agree with me about that either.

    I get it that some posters will go to the mats defending Green Lanterns. That's OK. It's what always happens. But this is a business, so the numbers will make the decisions, not you or me.
    Last edited by Trey Strain; 04-22-2018 at 08:26 AM.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    I don't regard staying in print for two years or even for four years as selling a comic. I regard staying in print as selling a comic. In another thread, a poster described selling 50 issues as an "epic" run, which I disputed. You don't need to agree with me about that.

    And again, I think the real sales for Green Lanterns are about 19K. I think they're doing the same thing they did with The New Guardians. If the sales were really 24K, I don't think they'd pull Baz and Cruz out of Justice League and end their comic, because they'd have created a success that starred two minority members. Why would they end it? On the contrary, they'd push it even harder. You don't need to agree with me about that either.
    So like I thought you have no actual rebuttal and you chose to willingly ignore the part where I said "that doesn't involve baseless theories."

    I'm just having fun here as I'm fairly sure you're just always trolling with this nonsense (which you're free to do) but if you really are stuck in the past this much, you've got to move on dude. The direct market is dying a slow and painful death. Until the day it dies or DC learns to adapt to the modern world, yeah, 50 issues for a book not starring an A-lister is a huge accomplishment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    But this is a business, so the numbers will make the decisions, not you or me.
    And I'll say again that that's not what's gonna happen. People have already explained to you that their removal from the JL is purely because Snyder wants a DCAU line-up.

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