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  1. #196
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Okay, guys, listen up.

    1. It is a rules violation to announce you're reporting someone. Doing it repeatedly just makes my job that much harder. I'm still cleaning up this mess.

    2. Only one of you needs to report a post. Flooding us with reports again just leaves more of a mess to clean up. The posts in question were up for twenty minutes before I started deleting messages. I appreciate the effort, but let's keep it reasonable next time (hopefully there won't be a next time)

    3. Everyone has to stick to the topic and not stray off into real life politics, or the implied political beliefs of creators based on what you read. You want to discuss where Lois stands on a topic? That's awesome. You want to discuss where Rucka stands on it? Or comparing what happens in a comic to how people should or should not act/feel about current events? That's straying too far for a discussion about what he's writing.

    This is all touchy subject matter for a lot of people, so let's not make it personal with one another.
    Gaelforce
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  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I can't speak for US Journalists (even if I don't think they are Left-leaning enough for my tastes as a rule of thumb).

    But here in France, journalists as a corporation propelled and helped put in place our current President, who is an authoritarian, state-destroyer, business and austerity enabler. ANd they have applauded and lauded him for it as long as he didn't turned on them - which he has been doing now for some time.

    So I can't help but laugh at the idea that journalists, especially important and well-placed ones like Lois are "allies to the people". They are self-serving at best, servants of the system which forces billions to poverty and kill our planet at worst.

    Needless to say, I gave this a shot because I like Bendis' run, but won't be coming back. I still can't stand Rucka's writing and I really don't like Lois Lane, as a character. At all.

    So, well, I just hope this book will last as long as possible for those who enjoy it. You guys deserve it.

    Lois Lane was inspired by real life female journalist Nellie Bly who famously went undercover at a mental institution to expose the atrocities and injustices being done to the mentally ill. It’s because of Bly that the entire regulation system surrounding these kinds of facilities was turned on its head and a lot of innocent people were saved.

    More recently, a female journalist in her 20’s in the US won the Pulitzer Prize after she exposed a truly horrible and very serious situation at Penn State University where a Coach was abusing and raping children. It’s because of her that Justice was served and that man finally went to jail. Like many female journalists, she received death threats after the story broke.

    I bring these examples up because they are real and they were women and this is the model of journalism from which Lois Lane was based. In fact, many women specifically who have become journalists cited the image of Lois in media as their inspiration. While I certainly respect that your country’s political situation has soured you on journalism that does not mean that the entire fourth estate is, as you say, an enabler of corruption. On the contrary, throughout history, women like Lois have protected a lot of innocent people. She’s an extremely meaningful voice and character.

    Superman is a story of hope and of ideals that we all can aspire to. Lois Lane is as well. She is not the kind of journalist you are describing. Do they exist? Absolutely. It’s a legit problem here in the US as well. But that doesn’t mean the inherent value in speaking truth to power is lost on everyone and it doesn’t change that journalism has often been the only way to expose the truth and see justice served. If we can believe a man can fly then we should be able to believe in an idealized female journalist as well—-especially given she was influenced by real women who literally changed the world at great cost and threats of their own safety.
    Last edited by Nelliebly; 07-03-2019 at 08:10 PM.

  3. #198
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Another thing regarding the label "This machine kills fascists" on Lois's computer. The sticker has a history and a heritage: it was what Woody Guthrie first painted on his guitar sometime in the early 1940s. The slogan positions Lois ideologically: as an anti-fascist, as a champion of the common man, and as a believer in knowledge and organisation. But it was also coined during the Second World War, and should be understood in that context. It was a call for the USA to join the war against Nazi Germany in a war that was already ongoing.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #199
    Fantastic Member Ulysses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Another thing regarding the label "This machine kills fascists" on Lois's computer. The sticker has a history and a heritage: it was what Woody Guthrie first painted on his guitar sometime in the early 1940s. The slogan positions Lois ideologically: as an anti-fascist, as a champion of the common man, and as a believer in knowledge and organisation. But it was also coined during the Second World War, and should be understood in that context. It was a call for the USA to join the war against Nazi Germany in a war that was already ongoing.
    Thanks for pointing this out. I'm a musician and currently writing a book about music , so was aware of the reference's origin but someone else may not have.

    I've seen this symbol referenced three other times in my life. First, in photos or Guthrie himself. Second at an open mic. The guy had this written in felt marker on his guitar. He was abut 20 years old and I can assure you he was doing absolutely nothing to kill fascists with his music, he didn't even make a dent in them. He was stroking his own ego. It was pure narcissism.

    Finally, I manage an apartment building and one of my tenants has this exact sticker on her computer and I know her. I can confidently say she isn't doing the slightest bit to destroy fascists. The sticker along with other "revolutionary" symbols - (such as a Che Guevara t-shirt, stickers that say "the future is female", "Make America Great Again" and so forth) have become a sort of semaphoric calling card signalling tribe affiliation and rarely any sort of sincere desire to do anything constructive in society to combat fascism. For the most part, these slogans serve the same function as a band t-shirt or a sports jersey. It signals group affiliations. Growing up Jehovah's Witness has completely ended my relationship to group affiliation. I'm an individualist.

    There is such a thing as the ontological definition of a thing and the hermeneutical one. What the thing is and what the thing has become are two different things that can both be true simultaneously. I'm discussing the latter definition. I find the association of Lois with what has become a tribe affiliation signalling device to be tacky and juvenile. Lois is neither of those things, she is serious and mature. An individual, not some ideology's avatar.
    Last edited by Ulysses; 07-04-2019 at 08:50 AM. Reason: grammar, syntax

  5. #200
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
    I find the association of Lois with what has become a tribe affiliation signalling device to be tacky and juvenile. Lois is neither of those things, she is serious and mature. An individual, not some ideology's avatar.
    But what does Lois think of putting that sticker on her computer? Because lets face it, your relation to a symbol need not be the same that I have, or Lois has.

    Because just as Woody Guthrie sang "The Sinking of the Reuben James" with his guitar with the sticker, Lois is exposing concentration camps and corruption in America with her computer. It's not virtue signalling or group affiliation in any way, it's a declaration of intent, placed on the tools of their trade.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  6. #201
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Just stressing this one - it's a slippery slope that can and already has led down a very personal and combative path.

    3. Everyone has to stick to the topic and not stray off into real life politics, or the implied political beliefs of creators based on what you read. You want to discuss where Lois stands on a topic? That's awesome. You want to discuss where Rucka stands on it? Or comparing what happens in a comic to how people should or should not act/feel about current events? That's straying too far for a discussion about what he's writing.

    I have seen conservative creators write liberal characters and vice versa. Just because a creator is reflecting what he/she sees in the real world does not mean they hold those beliefs.

    And we're not here to discuss the political beliefs of creators and how they're reflected in comics. There are RL politics threads in the Community forum if you want to go down that road.
    Gaelforce
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