Jean vs Storm

[rutog98]

First of all, I want to start out by saying that Jean Grey, while powerful, is nothing compared to Storm.

Regarding Jean's telepathy vs. Storm's mental defenses, when Storm started out as an X-Man, her mental defenses were not strong at all and literally every psi she came across was able to take her down (Mesmero, Emma Frost). However, as her character progressed, Claremont would spend the better part of 17 years building Ororo's mental defenses. As her mental defenses grew, she was able to best the likes of Emma Frost (a more powerful and more skilled telepath than non-PF Jean Grey), Shadow King (who dwarfs Jean in both power and skill), Dracula, and others. As a matter of fact, her willpower was on a constant growth curve that it got to the point where no single telepath could prevail against her mental defenses. In Uncanny X-Men #277, for instance, the Warskrull had the combined power of Xavier, Psylocke, and Oracle, and tried to kill Storm with a mindblast. The best he could do was temporarily subdue her, but freely conceded that given time, she could well break through his mind attack. So, before she could beat out his telepathy, he tried to have Lilandra behead Ororo with a sword. Xavier by himself is much more powerful than Jean Grey, and added to that power in this instance was, again, Psylocke and Oracle. As a matter of fact, Storm's mental defenses were so unbeatable that Nanny regressed Storm to a girl of about 12 years of age, giving Storm amnesia in the process. She did this to weaken Storm's mental defenses since Ororo's strength of spirit was too indomitable to be beaten. Even while in this regressed state with her willpower diminished, Storm was able to beat back Shadow King's psychic attacks.

During the 90s, Lobdell, Kelly, Seagle weakened Ororo to prop up Jean Grey and stripped Storm of her mental defenses. Literally, every single psi she came across could take her down save for one instance where she was assaulted by a lowly Morlock telepath. However, when Alan Davis came along, he reinstated Storm's indomitable will which was again stripped from her by Claremont during Revolution to prop up Jean who was on the team with her. However, once Jean was off the team, not only did Claremont reestablish Storm's mental defenses, he added the extra boost of her being able to use the electrical forces inside of her body to literally fry invading telepaths out of her mind. She used this to beat out Bogan, a Xavier-level telapth. And added to Bogan's power was the the psi or Rachel when Storm EASILY bested his mind attack.

Nanny explaining how Storm's willpower as an adult was too strong, so she regressed Storm to childhood to weaken her willpower:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/CLag1t1LwWq...0PpU6NMs=s1600

Regressed Storm beating Shadow King's mind attack:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/ttG9ECvDL8t...jz2OXP8a=s1600


Storm vs. Bogan-Rachel:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/ncdiOxD3Vz1...LlMMyWXc=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/B7jnrg0yHNx...a_VmhgSw=s1600

Now, Storm vs. Jean's telekinesis:

Here, we see Storm attacking Legion with winds so strong that Jean's TK, who is only getting a taste of what Storm is dishing out against Legion, can only withstand it for a short while:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/suBGJypc0Y5...RYT_aq1-=s1600

Here, we see Storm wield her lightning with power that the impact of shards of glass being hurled by Storm's lightning strain's Jean TK:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/OzuRbP-k818...GliOTO81=s1600

Then, on top of it, Storm doesn't even have to try and knock down Jean's TK shield to get around it. She has plenty of ways of shattering Jean's concentration like pulling stuff like this:

Using thunder and lightning to render it impossible for the Brotherhood to concentrate:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/BVeoOq3pMbD...L-qhEZz-=s1600

And then there are the two scans where Storm shatters Jean's concentration with creative applications of her elemental powers so that Jean cannot access her psionic abilities.

[King_Thor13]

1. True but she seems like should be potentially bloodlusted which makes her a lot more dangerous
2. Gentle's loyalties and Wakanda's are with Storm, not Jean. Besides, Storm isn't attacking Wakanda, justJean's team who are trying to enter Wakanda. And nobody on that team should even be able to approach Storm if she was in rushing everything on them. For most of their attacks to be effective, they would have to be a lot closer to her than she would need to be with them.
3. This is the only reason why she would win based upon this, but I'm hoping they don't fight and Storm breaks free on her own.

1.) Depending on how extensive this possession is, Ororo may be more rash, impatient, quick to anger or unable to access the full extent of her powers. We don't know the detriment of Casandra Nova's tampering, but I would assume that these weaknesses can be exploited.

2.) To an extent, yes, but if T'Challa and Nezhno witnessed Ororo attempting to harm or kill the X-Men, I'm certain they would interfere, no matter how much they value and respect Ororo. Furthermore, between Nightcrawlers teleportation & Jean's TK, I'm certain they could get in close enough.

3.) I sense a storm coming For real though, I feel it was too big of a teaser for them to not fight, at least momentarily. And I very much doubt Storm will break free on her own, as that would undermine the threat that Casandra Nova poses.

[rutog98]

deleted post

[rutog98]

Here, we see Jean barely able to telekinetically lift a plane, and the plane was not fully depowered as Scott was still exercising some control over it. Also, they were trying to land it, not fly it over a great distance. Note how it was stated to be a miracle for every second Jean could keep the plane aloft:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/npipTy87na5...fh_tf1ID=s1600

Kid Storm (who is MUCH weaker than Adult Storm) effortlessly flew a plane COMPLETELY under her own power for an extended period of time:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/2xNMQGSbj02...9cTjjQMI=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/xzGsEqYq3fE...9UiVE3bK=s1600

Storm lifts a skyscraper with her winds:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iaamL0RAsn...600/RCO023.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tS6FFXPg1x...600/RCO024.jpg

Storm's winds lift another building:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ddKveWEuqJ...WbR4ZKRt=s1600

[butterflykyss]

1.) Depending on how extensive this possession is, Ororo may be more rash, impatient, quick to anger or unable to access the full extent of her powers. We don't know the detriment of Casandra Nova's tampering, but I would assume that these weaknesses can be exploited.

2.) To an extent, yes, but if T'Challa and Nezhno witnessed Ororo attempting to harm or kill the X-Men, I'm certain they would interfere, no matter how much they value and respect Ororo. Furthermore, between Nightcrawlers teleportation & Jean's TK, I'm certain they could get in close enough.

3.) I sense a storm coming For real though, I feel it was too big of a teaser for them to not fight, at least momentarily. And I very much doubt Storm will break free on her own, as that would undermine the threat that Casandra Nova poses.

1. yea I'm not sure. if it's like SK she would have her full capacity just seeing a world and reality that isn't true.. but u make a good point we don't know how this tampering affects the host. from what it appears so far it seems to only induce blind rage. at least from the humans affected in the previous issues.

2. when they first saw storm she was quite far away... I'm not sure nightcrawler could teleport such a distance nor am I convinced jean could in her current state without concentrating...



and perhaps but I dont see either tchalla or nehzno attacking storm without trying to make sense of the situation.

3. ehhh... I hope u wrong I would love her to break free of the hold on her own.. the solicit doesn't seem to imply this though.

[Havok83]

2. when they first saw storm she was quite far away... I'm not sure nightcrawler could teleport such a distance nor am I convinced jean could in her current state without concentrating...
.

He most definitely can. She wasnt that far and Kurt's ported miles before

[butterflykyss]

He most definitely can. She wasnt that far and Kurt's ported miles before

the looks over several miles.. what's the longest he has ported safely with a target that high in the sky? you cant even see her from the first panel inside the funnel cloud.

[Havok83]

the looks over several miles.. what's the longest he has ported safely with a target that high in the sky? you cant even see her from the first panel inside the funnel cloud.

In Second Coming he teleported Hope from Kansas City to Utopia with a sentinel hand in his chest.

[butterflykyss]

In Second Coming he teleported Hope from Kansas City to Utopia with a sentinel hand in his chest.

that's far but he died from that feat. are there any where he didnt ultimately die.

[Havok83]

that's far but he died from that feat

that didnt kill him. A sentinel hand through his heart did. He was gonna die anyway. The fact that he traveled that far while injured was quite a feat. He should be able to teleport a few miles to Storm (which is considerably shorter) while healthy. Even if you didnt beleive he is capable of getting to her in one jump, he can do multiple shorter teleports in succession in order to get to her

[butterflykyss]

that didnt kill him. A sentinel hand through his heart did. He was gonna die anyway. The fact that he traveled that far while injured was quite a feat. He should be able to teleport a few miles to Storm (which is considerably shorter) while healthy

I'm reading a lot of old issues and there were limits on his teleporting.. north to south with the poles were a lot easier than east to west.. long distances and teleporting while moving at high velocities could result I'm extreme pain and possible death.. not saying they he cant but I'm curious outside of a feat where he died does he has a showing of long distances while trying to port near a target so far away and in the sky.

[SerCo]

I'm thinking this is going to mirror the Xavier vs Dark Phoenix fight, and Jean (Xavier) telepathically subdues Storm (DP) with a little help from within and frees her from Nova's influence.

[Havok83]

I'm reading a lot of old issues and there were limits on his teleporting.. north to south with the poles were a lot easier than east to west.. long distances and teleporting while moving at high velocities could result I'm extreme pain and possible death.. not saying they he cant but I'm curious outside of a feat where he died does he has a showing of long distances while trying to port near a target so far away and in the sky.

Prior to his big jump with Hope, he teleported 800 miles

[butterflykyss]

Prior to his big jump with Hope, he teleported 800 miles

he's doing that in iterations not in one large leap. if that were his strategy storm would not only see but sense the shift in the EM similarly to how magneto did when he fought against him. in that scan the distnwces between bamfs are much shorter than the him having to port where storm is in red when they first see her. also he is on the ground..

[Del torro]

Here, we see Jean barely able to telekinetically lift a plane, and the plane was not fully depowered as Scott was still exercising some control over it. Also, they were trying to land it, not fly it over a great distance. Note how it was stated to be a miracle for every second Jean could keep the plane aloft:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/npipTy87na5...fh_tf1ID=s1600

Kid Storm (who is MUCH weaker than Adult Storm) effortlessly flew a plane COMPLETELY under her own power for an extended period of time:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/2xNMQGSbj02...9cTjjQMI=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/xzGsEqYq3fE...9UiVE3bK=s1600

Storm lifts a skyscraper with her winds:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iaamL0RAsn...600/RCO023.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tS6FFXPg1x...600/RCO024.jpg

Storm's winds lift another building:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ddKveWEuqJ...WbR4ZKRt=s1600

I don't care about about Jean Vs Storm or who wins. But if you're going to use Jean in arguments, then don't lowball her. You took her weakest and most unimpressive feats and try to pass them off as the best she can offer.

You forgot in that scene that Jean had just been knocked out by a psychic attack and had accidentally astral projected to to another universe. As shown in Xmen unlimited, Jean finds it hard to use her powers powers after being knocked out previously, yet she was able to still shield from a building being dropped on her by candra. Not to mention that sentinels were trying to shoot them down in that scene.
This scene shouldn't remove other scenes where Jean lifted building pieces weighing thousands of tons

https://imgur.com/a/CjCrV

Or when she lifted a plane again
http://i.imgur.com/MVmUzTr.jpg

Or when she held together avalon, a floating city from falling apart, or Xmen season one, where she held up two jets at a time. You just picked up the weakest feat you could find.

You found a place with Jean complaining about storms winds beating her tk, while bishop is easily standing and Icemans thin walls that get broken easily stands up against the winds, but disregard other times where Jeans tk has withstood cyclops optic blasts that pulverize mountains and mountain ranges
https://i.imgur.com/jYo1Z1T.png

And post Resurrection
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cxZY-LhQj...0/017_0020.jpg
Cyclops amped blasts after avx

Or withstanding pressure at the bottom of the ocean

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XfBwrsIi3...00/073_022.jpg

Or anchoring herself from a Vortex that sucks in a mountain
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/qx7gZKVguWx...beTETjQA=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/yKaz2JMbu6Y...ARf_siSJ=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/w02MFIcU8J4...WbUv-G-Q=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/ksJjHvqOtWa...-UMMBgLk=s1600

Then worse you posted a picture of Jean crying about glass falling on her shield straining her, but ignore other scenes where

Jean shields from the explosion of an island
https://i.imgur.com/RZAuApL.png
https://i.imgur.com/090r9T1.png
Something she's did again in the Muir Island saga when Legion blew up the island.

Or when she shields from the blasts of The Stranger, a cosmic entity
https://i.imgur.com/crsqTAB.png

Or shields from a punch from Abomination, who goes toe to toe with hulk
https://i.imgur.com/p9fuLAw.png

Or punches from rogue
https://i.imgur.com/wapz96p.jpg

Or blasts from Goblin Queen
https://i.imgur.com/eoAEJUO.png

Or easily tanks bullets and lasers
https://i.imgur.com/Ij5cTjk.png
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vr8qzmkAE...00/073_003.jpg

Or a building exploding
https://imgur.com/a/LaAse

Or shielding from a white hole and blocking blasts from Binary (a Thor/silver surfer level being) at the same time
https://imgur.com/a/RezEx

But we're supposed to accept that falling glass is the highest thing that will stress Jeans shields guaranteeing that Storm will win.

Like I said I don't care about who wins, Storm is a cosmic level hero and has fought different heralds of galactus, but if you're going to put her up against Jean, don't downplay Jean to try to make storm look good. Storm doesn't need that, she's a goddess and powerful in her own right, so stop downplaying other characters.