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  1. #1
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    Default The MCU should adapt Hickmanís entire run and his greatest idea (the simulation)

    Anyone who read Hickmans work, from his creation of the Thinker, his characterization of the Fantastic Four and Doom, to his New Avengers and Time Runs Out knows that it is the greatest comic arc ever put on paper. But many overlook one of his greatest contributions:

    The simulation hypothesis is an underlying theme in Hickman's work.

    Here is a description of the simulation hypothesis as described by Wikipedia:

    "The philosopher Nick Bostrom developed an expanded argument examining the probability of our reality being a simulacrum. His argument states that at least one of the following statements is true:

    1. Human civilization is unlikely to reach a level of technological maturity capable of producing simulated realities, or such simulations are physically impossible to construct. This article essentially rules out this possibility... http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artifi...olution-1.html

    2. A comparable civilization reaching aforementioned technological status will likely not produce a significant number of simulated realities (one that might push the probable existence of digital entities beyond the probable number of "real" entities in a Universe) for any of a number of reasons, such as, diversion of computational processing power for other tasks, ethical considerations of holding entities captive in simulated realities, etc.

    3. Any entities with our general set of experiences are almost certainly living in a simulation.

    His argument rests on the premise that given sufficiently advanced technology, it is possible to represent the populated surface of the Earth without recourse to digital physics; that the qualia experienced by a simulated consciousness is comparable or equivalent to that of a naturally occurring human consciousness; and that one or more levels of simulation within simulations would be feasible given only a modest expenditure of computational resources in the real world.

    If one assumes first that humans will not be destroyed or destroy themselves before developing such a technology, and, next, that human descendants will have no overriding legal restrictions or moral compunctions against simulating biospheres or their own historical biosphere, then it would be unreasonable to count ourselves among the small minority of genuine organisms who, sooner or later, will be vastly outnumbered by artificial simulations."

    This sounds eerily similar to the story Hickman is telling. Reading all of Hickman's work at Marvel in order, the below statements are hinted at if not outright stated:

    A. All of reality is a simulation (an experiment as Hickman described it) run by higher beings
    (beings represented by the Beyonders inside the simulated reality). The beyonders are just representations of the beings, like computer code, similar to the mapmaker code trying to trace back the source of the incursions. The higher beings that the beyonders represent are inaccessible to anyone inside the simulation. By the way, if it's not clear, I'm using the components that a computer needs to function purely as an analogy. It's the easiest way I could come up with to describe the role each piece plays in Hickman's story.

    B. The higher beings (manifested inside the simulation as the beyonders) are ending the simulation and the molecule man is our perception of the code that will terminate the simulation. Entities like The Living Tribunal and the ex nihilo serve important core functions in the BIOS that oversee the simulation and seed it with life. Galactus serves a role analogous to a hard drive defragger. Thus, as powerful as they seem, they are merely a part of the simulation and no longer serve a function now that the simulation is ending.

    C. Doom found out 25 years ahead of the termination date and the incursions are the byproduct of him trying to save the simulation. His actions effectively recruit multitudes of intelligent entities in the simulation towards the task of preventing the simulation from being terminated.

    D. Battleworld is analogous to a computer's boot OS built by doom by salvaging parts of various realities. It is hidden inside the BIOS aka the white space of the "computer (just an analogy)" running the simulation. It's likely that The Living Tribunal existed in the BIOS since The Living Tribunal is a security protocol for the entire simulation/multiverse. This is why The Living Tribunal's code is being used as a life raft to transport a handful of survivors over to the BIOS.

    E. Once the Beyonders finish shutting down the original simulation and effectively reformat the hard drive, this boot OS (battleworld) will serve as the interface that allows Franklin Richards to recreate the multiverse from inside the BIOS itself.

    F. Franklin Richards, like the beyonders themselves, seems to be made up of the computer code that enables the beyonders, ex nihilo and the living tribunal to create "life" or alter reality throughout the multiverse. How and why is not yet explained.


    The ideas presented through out secret wars, such as the notion of defragmented remnants of different deleted realities being pieced back together into one world, eventually ending with doom and adult franklin richards rebooting all of reality in secret wars #8, the super powers that so many people have that defy all laws of physics, chemistry and biology (even basics ones like energy can't be created or destroyed), these things only make sense if the marvel multiverse itself was a simulation.

    The marvel multiverse being a simulation created by the beyonders doesn't make the experiences of the characters in that multiverse any less real or less meaningful. That would be like saying that our planet being just one of billions and billions of planets in our galaxy which in it self is just one one of billions of galaxies in the universe somehow makes our own experiences less meaningful.

    Attachment 23883

    The Beyonders are able to rewrite the laws of reality on a whim. Case in point they "spliced a problem-solving virus into real space" to aid them in their diagnostics of the dead Molecule Man problem. It also makes the marvel universe much more realistic. Suddenly, entities like galactus, the phoenix force, the living tribunal and things like mutants with very different power sets popping up out of the blue become much more feasible. Galactus's explanation that he serves a purpose that is beyond their comprehension makes sense. The idea that mutants are a byproduct of natural evolution was ridiculous at best. However, all these things would no longer be as laughably illogical if the entire marvel multiverse was indeed part of a larger simulation.

    Imagine in 2080, we have a simulation filled with superheros and we can peek in and watch what they’re up to anytime we want. Something like that would be a very popular way for people to entertain themselves for years. We are the Beyonders, they are our avatars when we peek inside. Ratings will eventually dip and we will try to delete the simulation and replace it with something else at some point. But imagine the press that it would get if the the simulated beings manage to hack into the bios of the very similuation we coded and salvage their world. Something like that would certainly get lots of news coverage, surge the ratings up again and make more people interested in tuning in, wouldn’t it? Hence the simulation is allowed to continue.



    To understand how this plays into our world, these three articles are essential reading:

    http://www.fnal.gov/pub/presspass/pr...-20140826.html

    http://www.nature.com/news/simulatio...logram-1.14328

    and most importantly,

    http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html
    Last edited by Wikoogle; 04-24-2018 at 07:17 PM.

  2. #2
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    That's...well, not for me. There's something to be said against a movie that has too little story. There's also something to be said against too much story. This seems to be too much of both. A story that makes a huge investment in saying almost nothing at all.

  3. #3
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    It’s not a story for one movie.

    It’s several movies that cover Hickmans immensely popular and beloved entire run at Marvel.

    Have you read Hickmans entire marvel run? Almost everyone that has agrees it would be an amazing arc for Phases 4,5 and 6. The OP just coalesces one of the most significant implication of his run.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikoogle View Post
    It’s not a story for one movie.

    It’s several movies that cover Hickmans immensely popular and beloved entire run at Marvel.

    Have you read Hickmans entire marvel run? Almost everyone that has agrees it would be an amazing arc for Phases 4,5 and 6. The OP just coalesces one of the most significant implication of his run.
    Ifind it unlikely even Marvel could make it to phase 5 with such a premise. Also dont recall everyone making a single comment about it on these boards until tonight.

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Sounds overblown and dreadfully tedious.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    Ifind it unlikely even Marvel could make it to phase 5 with such a premise. Also dont recall everyone making a single comment about it on these boards until tonight.
    There is a front page editorial on it at this site....
    https://www.cbr.com/mcu-phase-4-jona...ers-world/amp/

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Sounds overblown and dreadfully tedious.
    If it sounds tedious to you, it’s only because you haven’t read Hickman. It’s actually amazing, but it’s rich so condensing all 4 years of it to explain it in a couple of paragraphs is difficult to do.

    If anyone outlined the three phases of plot development that led to infinity war, explaining GotG, infinity stones etc 10 years ago, you would have thought it was too long and too complicated as well.
    Last edited by Wikoogle; 04-25-2018 at 03:03 AM.

  7. #7
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    What's the tl:dr?

  8. #8
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    The MCU doesn't adapt stories. It merely draws some inspiration and elements from specific stories and does its own thing with it.

    MCU Civil War didn't have a lot in common with the Millar debacle of the same name.

  9. #9
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    I feel like the actions in Endgame would be perfect trigger for incursions to occur. Incursions would be a great way to bring the Fantastic Four, Doom and Mutants over to the MCU as well.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member Qwerty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikoogle View Post
    Anyone who read Hickmans work, from his creation of the Thinker, his characterization of the Fantastic Four and Doom, to his New Avengers and Time Runs Out knows that it is the greatest comic arc ever put on paper. But many overlook one of his greatest contributions:

    The simulation hypothesis is an underlying theme in Hickman's work.

    Here is a description of the simulation hypothesis as described by Wikipedia:

    "The philosopher Nick Bostrom developed an expanded argument examining the probability of our reality being a simulacrum. His argument states that at least one of the following statements is true:

    1. Human civilization is unlikely to reach a level of technological maturity capable of producing simulated realities, or such simulations are physically impossible to construct. This article essentially rules out this possibility... http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artifi...olution-1.html

    2. A comparable civilization reaching aforementioned technological status will likely not produce a significant number of simulated realities (one that might push the probable existence of digital entities beyond the probable number of "real" entities in a Universe) for any of a number of reasons, such as, diversion of computational processing power for other tasks, ethical considerations of holding entities captive in simulated realities, etc.

    3. Any entities with our general set of experiences are almost certainly living in a simulation.

    His argument rests on the premise that given sufficiently advanced technology, it is possible to represent the populated surface of the Earth without recourse to digital physics; that the qualia experienced by a simulated consciousness is comparable or equivalent to that of a naturally occurring human consciousness; and that one or more levels of simulation within simulations would be feasible given only a modest expenditure of computational resources in the real world.

    If one assumes first that humans will not be destroyed or destroy themselves before developing such a technology, and, next, that human descendants will have no overriding legal restrictions or moral compunctions against simulating biospheres or their own historical biosphere, then it would be unreasonable to count ourselves among the small minority of genuine organisms who, sooner or later, will be vastly outnumbered by artificial simulations."

    This sounds eerily similar to the story Hickman is telling. Reading all of Hickman's work at Marvel in order, the below statements are hinted at if not outright stated:

    A. All of reality is a simulation (an experiment as Hickman described it) run by higher beings
    (beings represented by the Beyonders inside the simulated reality). The beyonders are just representations of the beings, like computer code, similar to the mapmaker code trying to trace back the source of the incursions. The higher beings that the beyonders represent are inaccessible to anyone inside the simulation. By the way, if it's not clear, I'm using the components that a computer needs to function purely as an analogy. It's the easiest way I could come up with to describe the role each piece plays in Hickman's story.

    B. The higher beings (manifested inside the simulation as the beyonders) are ending the simulation and the molecule man is our perception of the code that will terminate the simulation. Entities like The Living Tribunal and the ex nihilo serve important core functions in the BIOS that oversee the simulation and seed it with life. Galactus serves a role analogous to a hard drive defragger. Thus, as powerful as they seem, they are merely a part of the simulation and no longer serve a function now that the simulation is ending.

    C. Doom found out 25 years ahead of the termination date and the incursions are the byproduct of him trying to save the simulation. His actions effectively recruit multitudes of intelligent entities in the simulation towards the task of preventing the simulation from being terminated.

    D. Battleworld is analogous to a computer's boot OS built by doom by salvaging parts of various realities. It is hidden inside the BIOS aka the white space of the "computer (just an analogy)" running the simulation. It's likely that The Living Tribunal existed in the BIOS since The Living Tribunal is a security protocol for the entire simulation/multiverse. This is why The Living Tribunal's code is being used as a life raft to transport a handful of survivors over to the BIOS.

    E. Once the Beyonders finish shutting down the original simulation and effectively reformat the hard drive, this boot OS (battleworld) will serve as the interface that allows Franklin Richards to recreate the multiverse from inside the BIOS itself.

    F. Franklin Richards, like the beyonders themselves, seems to be made up of the computer code that enables the beyonders, ex nihilo and the living tribunal to create "life" or alter reality throughout the multiverse. How and why is not yet explained.


    The ideas presented through out secret wars, such as the notion of defragmented remnants of different deleted realities being pieced back together into one world, eventually ending with doom and adult franklin richards rebooting all of reality in secret wars #8, the super powers that so many people have that defy all laws of physics, chemistry and biology (even basics ones like energy can't be created or destroyed), these things only make sense if the marvel multiverse itself was a simulation.

    The marvel multiverse being a simulation created by the beyonders doesn't make the experiences of the characters in that multiverse any less real or less meaningful. That would be like saying that our planet being just one of billions and billions of planets in our galaxy which in it self is just one one of billions of galaxies in the universe somehow makes our own experiences less meaningful.

    Attachment 23883

    The Beyonders are able to rewrite the laws of reality on a whim. Case in point they "spliced a problem-solving virus into real space" to aid them in their diagnostics of the dead Molecule Man problem. It also makes the marvel universe much more realistic. Suddenly, entities like galactus, the phoenix force, the living tribunal and things like mutants with very different power sets popping up out of the blue become much more feasible. Galactus's explanation that he serves a purpose that is beyond their comprehension makes sense. The idea that mutants are a byproduct of natural evolution was ridiculous at best. However, all these things would no longer be as laughably illogical if the entire marvel multiverse was indeed part of a larger simulation.

    Imagine in 2080, we have a simulation filled with superheros and we can peek in and watch what they’re up to anytime we want. Something like that would be a very popular way for people to entertain themselves for years. We are the Beyonders, they are our avatars when we peek inside. Ratings will eventually dip and we will try to delete the simulation and replace it with something else at some point. But imagine the press that it would get if the the simulated beings manage to hack into the bios of the very similuation we coded and salvage their world. Something like that would certainly get lots of news coverage, surge the ratings up again and make more people interested in tuning in, wouldn’t it? Hence the simulation is allowed to continue.



    To understand how this plays into our world, these three articles are essential reading:

    http://www.fnal.gov/pub/presspass/pr...-20140826.html

    http://www.nature.com/news/simulatio...logram-1.14328

    and most importantly,

    http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html
    Nice try Hickman
    Stick "we work together and we get out of here alive"

    Matt "peace out suckas"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qwerty View Post
    Nice try Hickman
    Haha. Very excited at the prospect of having my work be brought over to the MCU

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikoogle View Post
    Endgame actually sets up the entire MCU to be a simulation run by the beyonders. The infinity stones are the base core code of the simulation.

    This is why Thanos actions make sense. He cant just make more resources, that would use up more computing resources causing the beyonders to shut down the simulation sooner. All this life will just mean the beyonders simulation is too resource intensive again. So of course they would trigger the incursions to begin culling it down.

  12. #12
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    The MCU adapt things from allll over the comics. Infinity War/Endgame is a whole mixture of different Thanos appearances (including Hickmans Infinity) rolled into one. The next ďsagaĒ will most likely be something similar.

    I can imagine there will be a Beyonder, whos goals might be closer to The BeyonderS from Hickmans run. This will end with a big Doom epic, comparable to both the original and the 2015 Secret Wars where Doom has the power of The Beyonder.

  13. #13
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    So, if the MCU becomes a simulation, does that make Agents of SHIELD the Inception of the MCU, since they actually did become trapped in a simulation within a simulation?

  14. #14
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    To be perfectly honest, the existence of simulation theory is evidence that intelligence and stupidity are not mutually exclusive states.

  15. #15
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    insert confused Ice Cube gif
    Last edited by Wall-Crawler; 04-28-2019 at 11:10 PM.

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