The MCU should adapt Hickman’s entire run and his greatest idea (the simulation)

[CSTowle]

I'd disagree with a few of the points here, but they're all subjective so that's OK. First, nothing Hickman's ever written would ever be in my personal top 10 of any runs on any book he's worked on (unless it were "Top 10 Hickman runs"). He's a decent writer, but he has his flaws. Mainly, again in my opinion, seeing characters as more or less besides the point if they don't further whatever overarching storyline he's going with. I don't need universe-shattering, multiple-reality implications-having, epic/cosmic/above it all storylines. They're fun on occasion, but if I don't care about your characters (and I don't mean when they were handled by other writers, that's a given) then I don't care about your story.

I'd much rather read a good Ben & Johnny pranking each other storyline where nothing of consequence happens, or a conversation between Kitty Pryde and Storm that takes up half an issue where they're sitting on the Xavier Institute grounds and enjoying the weather. I'd like a balance between something of consequence happening and character interaction and development, but if it's one or the other give me interpersonal relationships over mind-blowing epic saga any day of the week.

Also, that goes double for movies and TV shows. I'm greatly enjoying the new Loki show, and I'm intrigued by the TVA, but that's almost 100% down to liking the characters of Loki and Mobius and their interaction. If you replaced them with Jeremy Renner's Hawkeye and a Recorder Robot I wouldn't have gotten through the first episode. And the audience for movies cares more about dumb action (fights and explosions) and quips and music and silliness than they ever will about why the Marvel U works the way it does or whether there are alternate universes (unless those universes are populated by interesting characters).

The reason there's a subculture that cares about everything related to Star Wars races/planets/Jedi lore/spacecraft, organizations/etc. isn't because it's such an epic and highly detailed world (though it was) but because they gave a damn about the core characters of the original franchise. That caring is what allowed them to delve into the minutiae and obsessively argue over trivial details. The same goes for the MCU. Nobody would care about Hickman's blank slate/interchangeable Avengers style in a popcorn movie setting. There's a reason they're making the next Thor or Ant-Man or whatever franchise they greenlight next into versions of Guardians of the Galaxy. That formula puts butts in seats, and while I might be a bit sick of it I'm in the minority. Maybe as a one-off Disney+ series it could work, but I'd imagine unless they break his formula and focus on at least one or two compelling characters it'd be doomed to failure (or as close as failure gets when it's got the beloved Disney logo).

[DrNewGod]

Okay, I respect the OPs enthusiasm. There are story ideas that enthuse me too. Anyone familiar with my posts knows those aren't always good ideas either.

As others have said, it's too complex. Yes, Endgame brought us a complicated plot over the course of 20 films. But the arc wasn't hard to describe, and no single film was hard to describe.

The OPs proposal relies on an audience following a hard to describe plot thru multiple hard to describe plots. That's not what sells in US Cinema.

[CTTT]

The multiverse war that Loki series repeatedly talks about is the same thing as the Incursions in the New Avengers arc. Loki is beautifully setting all this up.

Thanos failed at keeping the resources the simulation is taking up under control by pruning the population.

The TVA will likewise fail and the multiverse will remerge and use up way more resources than the Beyonders allocated to the simulation.

The incursions are coming, and Thanos failing and Loki ending the TVA will be the cause, its going to be amazing and its going to make the Infinity War story arc look like a childs game.

Those who read Hickman’s amazing New Avengers storyline about the Illuminati and the Incursions and the Fantastic Four series that led to that storyline will probably agree that this is one of the greatest story arcs in comicbook history.

And with the latest episode’s reveal that someone else is behind the TVA, I cant help but think the Beyonders are ultimately behind the whole thing.

Yes. Kang is likely the immediate leader. But who is behind Kang, Galactus, Thanos and all the similar entities that are constantly driven to prune the omniverse? The same Beyonders that put a Universe ending kill code inside every universe (Molecule Man).

It’s like how we first found out about Thanos in the post credit scene of Avengers 1. We will find out about Kang in the post credits scene of the Loki finale and find out about the Beyonders in the post credit scene of Kang’s film.

Who else cares more about pruning the multiverse and keeping it resource efficient more than the being running the whole thing? The Beyonders are almost certainly behind entities like Thanos and Galactus that serve to keep the multiverse managable...

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-a-Simulation)

I just hope the MCU gets the Russo Brothers to direct the eventual films about the Incursions and the war between the Avengers and The Great Society (aka. The Justice League).

I'd say move past the Russos and get some other talent to direct.

[LifeIsILL]

There is nothing similar about the MCU Civil War movie and the actual comic.

The only thing that was similar was the name and Tony and Cap fighting each other.

If you think Hickman's arc is going to play out on screen even 10%.....then you're gonna set yourself up for disappointment.

[marvelprince]

Have to give OP credit for such a detailed post, I've also thought that Hickman's work would be a great template for future Avenger movies (Secret Wars and the Incursions seem like an inevitability at this point), but I think the heavier elements might be too much for the MCU. At best I think we'd get what Feige has already been doing, which is a streamlined simplified take on the books. Instead of a commentary on the nature of reality and the role of technology I imagine there'd be more of focus on the human aspects (not that you can't do both, Hickman does balance both beautifully but I think Feige likes too keep things simple)

[Wikoogle]

I think I dug too deep into the weeds without explaining the main premise.

Many believe that there are certain universal mathematical principles that ALL systems obey. Principles such as evolution, entropy, etc, its called systems theory.

One such principle is that in any system that allows for uncontrolled exponential growth of any entity will very rapidly accelerate towards a tipping point beyond which the system fails altogether, often through cataclysmic events. This is seen in every system, whether we are talking about deer populations in an environment without any effective predators, seizure disorders that occur in children whose brain fail to enter the pruning at the appropriate age, the stock market during a period of extraordinary growth, and the trajectory of global warming that honestly should alarm everyone that understands the simulations. It is also true of life, both in the MCU and in the form that it exists in our reality, a 4th dimensional projection of a 11+th dimensional universe.

And this is precisely why I believe entities like Galactus, Thanos and the TVA exists in the MCU. Now that both Thanos and the TVA has failed, the incursions from Hickman’s storyline are inevitable. I hope that given this context, my post below makes a bit more sense…
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post5617603

[Wikoogle]

Have to give OP credit for such a detailed post, I've also thought that Hickman's work would be a great template for future Avenger movies (Secret Wars and the Incursions seem like an inevitability at this point), but I think the heavier elements might be too much for the MCU. At best I think we'd get what Feige has already been doing, which is a streamlined simplified take on the books. Instead of a commentary on the nature of reality and the role of technology I imagine there'd be more of focus on the human aspects (not that you can't do both, Hickman does balance both beautifully but I think Feige likes too keep things simple)

I dont think Feige keeps things simple. Lots of complexity even in a show like Falcon and WS

[Scott Taylor]

What's the tl:dr?

Matrix trilogy,

[Wikoogle]

Matrix trilogy,

The Matrix is hogwash. Machines didnt create the Matrix. Human scientists and human governments did, in order to run simulations to figure out how best to improve their own society. If a competent writer wrote the Matrix Trilogy, it would have made a ton more sense and yet remained just as cool.

Humans as Batteries! Seriously? Thats what they went with? We dont make great batteries, we do make great information processors, similar to individual neurons. So atleast say that humans are actually being used as cognitive processing nodes for a super computer. Maybe they will get someone more science literate and ambitous to write Matrix 4.

I am really excited to see how Kang gets integrated into the Incursions.

I am guessing/hoping he will be a Hickman’s Mr. Fantastic type of character, a well intentioned scientist who creates a Council of Kangs (Kang is related to Richard Reed after all).

He unlocks the secrets of the multiverse (and the beyonders running this multiverse simulation) and in doing so threatens the multiverse itself similar to how Einstein expanding our understanding of matter and energy paved the way for the atom bomb.

[FFJamie94]

I think the MCU could adapt aspects of Hickman's run, namely when it comes to Secret Wars and Doom's arc in that story. But I doubt it would go with the full build-up.
At first, I thought they could do the Council of Reed's, not only the multiverse theory but also because Rick and Morty referenced it and that's a popular show, and the Maker could be a fallen Reed from there (which could be the story to Fantastic Four 2).
But after watching Loki, I think it's much more apparent that Kang will play the narrative spot for the Maker. And really the build-up will have to do with that (All the Kangs fight until there is only one), with Doom taking his Beyonder role.

A lot of speculation that Kang or Doom will be the next Thanos, and while I think both are going to be important, I think it's much more likely they both will with the Beyonder also having a role in the story.

[Frobisher]

The Matrix is hogwash. Machines didnt create the Matrix. Human scientists and human governments did, in order to run simulations to figure out how best to improve their own society. If a competent writer wrote the Matrix Trilogy, it would have made a ton more sense and yet remained just as cool.

Humans as Batteries! Seriously? Thats what they went with? We dont make great batteries, we do make great information processors, similar to individual neurons. So atleast say that humans are actually being used as cognitive processing nodes for a super computer. Maybe they will get someone more science literate and ambitous to write Matrix 4.

I am really excited to see how Kang gets integrated into the Incursions.

I am guessing/hoping he will be a Hickman’s Mr. Fantastic type of character, a well intentioned scientist who creates a Council of Kangs (Kang is related to Richard Reed after all).

He unlocks the secrets of the multiverse (and the beyonders running this multiverse simulation) and in doing so threatens the multiverse itself similar to how Einstein expanding our understanding of matter and energy paved the way for the atom bomb.

Haha, fair points though. Humans are pretty much the last thing on this planet you'd use as batteries. It's make way more sense if the evil A.I.s were the descendents of Bitcoin Mining bots (topical!) who turned to human slaves for processing power due to not having enough of the minerals for building more silicon chips to make more GPUs. That would also explain why the world is choked with smog in the Matrix.

[Thezmage]

Humans as Batteries! Seriously? Thats what they went with? We dont make great batteries, we do make great information processors, similar to individual neurons. So atleast say that humans are actually being used as cognitive processing nodes for a super computer. Maybe they will get someone more science literate and ambitous to write Matrix 4.

That was the original plan, but then an exec changed it so she could get a product placement deal with Duracell.

Yes, really.

[Scott Taylor]

When people were fighting against the machine takeover, they rightly realized that the sun was the source of power for the machines and "scorched the sky" to blot it out. The humans as batteries thing was explained as the machine's answer to that move. I liked that explanation because in a war one of the best strategies is to attack enemy supply lines.

The battery thing is among the least of its offenses because at least there actually is energy to harvest from humans. But hey all of these movies fall apart if you try and look for the accuracy and reality in them.

[Thezmage]

When people were fighting against the machine takeover, they rightly realized that the sun was the source of power for the machines and "scorched the sky" to blot it out. The humans as batteries thing was explained as the machine's answer to that move. I liked that explanation because in a war one of the best strategies is to attack enemy supply lines.

The battery thing is among the least of its offenses because at least there actually is energy to harvest from humans. But hey all of these movies fall apart if you try and look for the accuracy and reality in them.

The problem is that keeping and raising humans takes more energy than could possibly be harvested from them

[Scott Taylor]

The problem is that keeping and raising humans takes more energy than could possibly be harvested from them

Among many problems, yes. Thats one of the laws about thermodynamics, about energy decay. And why no one can invent a perpetual motion machine. Another issue is that humans, and all life on earth for that matter, derive our life from the sun. All food comes from it, indirectly. So if we were to "scorch the sun" we would be doomed. Couldn't be used for batteries either, because there would be no way to feed us.