Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers allowed)

[Darkseid Is]

Okay... I saw it again today...

Was anything with Thanos done with a puppet? The part with Mantis on his head and Peter yelling at him looked very real.

[The Dying Detective]

What bothers me a little is the Black Order I mean what happened to, Thanos's "Fine I'll do it myself," thing? In fact where were the Black Order when Loki and Ronan when he need them? I mean the real world answer would most likely be the plans to include the Black Order were not nailed down yet but what in universe explanation can they give for them suddenly coming in now?

[The Cool Thatguy]

What bothers me a little is the Black Order I mean what happened to, Thanos's "Fine I'll do it myself," thing? In fact where were the Black Order when Loki and Ronan when he need them? I mean the real world answer would most likely be the plans to include the Black Order were not nailed down yet but what in universe explanation can they give for them suddenly coming in now?

It could just be that Thanos was using proxies so as not to draw too much attention to himself. All things considered, Loki was the perfect candidate to get him the space gem, and Ronan had his own army, sparing Thanos some trouble.

[The Dying Detective]

It could just be that Thanos was using proxies so as not to draw too much attention to himself. All things considered, Loki was the perfect candidate to get him the space gem, and Ronan had his own army, sparing Thanos some trouble.

I thought of that but unfortunately it doesn't necessarily explain why Thanos suddenly calls in the Black Order during what should have been a solo mission to find the Infinity Stones.

[Rincewind]

I thought of that but unfortunately it doesn't necessarily explain why Thanos suddenly calls in the Black Order during what should have been a solo mission to find the Infinity Stones.

Maybe he meant that he would lead the effort instead of sending people out and waiting for them to do it. I don't think it meant that Thanos was going to do all the work himself while his servants/children/Black Order took a vacation.

[The Dying Detective]

Maybe he meant that he would lead the effort instead of sending people out and waiting for them to do it. I don't think it meant that Thanos was going to do all the work himself while his servants/children/Black Order took a vacation.

Well if you say so if they had planned it better we should have seen Thanos address the Black Order in the mid credit scene where he said decided to stop relying on pawns to do his dirty work.

[Midvillian1322]

Okay... I saw it again today...

Was anything with Thanos done with a puppet? The part with Mantis on his head and Peter yelling at him looked very real.

Yea I think anytime we saw just his head in profile was animatronics.. then a mix of that with some CGI when we saw just his face. Theres multiple scene where u can tell that it's something physical

[Rincewind]

Well if you say so if they had planned it better we should have seen Thanos address the Black Order in the mid credit scene where he said decided to stop relying on pawns to do his dirty work.

I disagree. The mid/end credit scenes are either to provide a final joke or to give foreshadowing of what's to come. They are not about giving exposition. The dialogue itself is there to show that Thanos will no longer be a figure in the background. Instead he is going to be personally involved in getting the stones. What has changed is that he is the leader of the task instead of using an agent like Loki or Ronan.

And that is how it plays out in Infinity War. Thanos led the attack on Xandar before the opening scene to get the Power Gem. Thanos is there giving orders and fighting on the Asgardian refugee ship where he gets the Tessaract. The only time he sends the Black Order on their own is when he knows that Earth has gotten warning about him coming. Even then, Thanos is still hands on about getting the other stones. He personally get the Reality Stone at Knowwhere, then goes to get the Soul Stone.

When he gets to Titan, he is not surprised that the the Black Order was not successful in getting the Eye of Agamotto. But Thanos personally fights until he get it. Then he arrives on Earth to join the surviving Order members in Wakanda. Again, Thanos personally get the Mind Stone.

Before Age of Ultron, Thanos was fine with sending others to retrieve the Stones. He rescued Loki and lent him the Mind Stone in a mission to get the Tessaract. He backed Ronan to get the Power Stone. He sent Gamora and Nebula on various missions to aid in his quest. But until the mid credits scene in question, he did not take an active part. After he says "Fine, I'll do it myself." that changes.

You are giving the line a specific meaning when it is meant to be vague. And when Infinity War shows exactly how Thanos carries out his plan, it should be clear now what that line meant. That is not a plot hole to me.

[DrNewGod]

I don't get too hung up on post-credit teasers because they're general directions as often as they are specific "coming attractions" notices. While the post/mid-credit scenes from CA:TFA and Ant-Man were filmed scenes from subsequent movies, teasers like Thanos' reveal at the end of Marvel's The Avengers, and Stark's meeting with Ross after The Incredible Hulk, were much more in the "we're headed this way, but it's a work in progress..." vein.

That "general direction" approach is they way that I take Thanos' GotG post-credit. I don't even know how much of A:IW had been written at that point. However, if we want to pick nits, I can see Thanos as considering The Order as part of his personal resources, separate from agents like Ronan or Loki, and thus being part of "myself."

[The Dying Detective]

I disagree. The mid/end credit scenes are either to provide a final joke or to give foreshadowing of what's to come. They are not about giving exposition. The dialogue itself is there to show that Thanos will no longer be a figure in the background. Instead he is going to be personally involved in getting the stones. What has changed is that he is the leader of the task instead of using an agent like Loki or Ronan.

And that is how it plays out in Infinity War. Thanos led the attack on Xandar before the opening scene to get the Power Gem. Thanos is there giving orders and fighting on the Asgardian refugee ship where he gets the Tessaract. The only time he sends the Black Order on their own is when he knows that Earth has gotten warning about him coming. Even then, Thanos is still hands on about getting the other stones. He personally get the Reality Stone at Knowwhere, then goes to get the Soul Stone.

When he gets to Titan, he is not surprised that the the Black Order was not successful in getting the Eye of Agamotto. But Thanos personally fights until he get it. Then he arrives on Earth to join the surviving Order members in Wakanda. Again, Thanos personally get the Mind Stone.

Before Age of Ultron, Thanos was fine with sending others to retrieve the Stones. He rescued Loki and lent him the Mind Stone in a mission to get the Tessaract. He backed Ronan to get the Power Stone. He sent Gamora and Nebula on various missions to aid in his quest. But until the mid credits scene in question, he did not take an active part. After he says "Fine, I'll do it myself." that changes.

You are giving the line a specific meaning when it is meant to be vague. And when Infinity War shows exactly how Thanos carries out his plan, it should be clear now what that line meant. That is not a plot hole to me.

Well not so much as talk to the Black Order but simply let the camera move to show us the Black Order ready to act on Thanos's orders or show them walk into the scene behind him. Well your mileage may vary on this I guess though in all honesty Thanos's words can taken quite literally when he went to pick up the Infinity Gauntlet to begin his hunt for the Stones especially when no plans have been revealed to include new goons for him to command. But too bad they never or maybe could not show the conflict between Thanos and the Collector over the Reality Stone.

[Rincewind]

I don't get too hung up on post-credit teasers because they're general directions as often as they are specific "coming attractions" notices. While the post/mid-credit scenes from CA:TFA and Ant-Man were filmed scenes from subsequent movies, teasers like Thanos' reveal at the end of Marvel's The Avengers, and Stark's meeting with Ross after The Incredible Hulk, were much more in the "we're headed this way, but it's a work in progress..." vein.

That "general direction" approach is they way that I take Thanos' GotG post-credit. I don't even know how much of A:IW had been written at that point. However, if we want to pick nits, I can see Thanos as considering The Order as part of his personal resources, separate from agents like Ronan or Loki, and thus being part of "myself."

While I love the MCU, there are inconsistencies that pop up, especially in the earlier movies. The Incredible Hulk set up Sam Sterns as the Leader, but we never got to see anything more than that. The Stark/Ross scene didn't make any sense without a Hulk sequel, so they did a One Shot to explain it away.

In Iron Man, Coulson makes it seem that SHIELD is new, but the movies have shown that SHIELD has been around for awhile. Iron Man also mentions Howard Stark working on the Manhattan Project, but no mention of Captain America. There have been plenty of other points that were inconsistent because the plans were not fleshed out, or they went in a different direction.

I consider this a price to pay for a shared universe. And the inconsistencies never reached X-Men movie level, so it didn't bug me as much.

[DrNewGod]

While I love the MCU, there are inconsistencies that pop up, especially in the earlier movies. The Incredible Hulk set up Sam Sterns as the Leader, but we never got to see anything more than that. The Stark/Ross scene didn't make any sense without a Hulk sequel, so they did a One Shot to explain it away.

In Iron Man, Coulson makes it seem that SHIELD is new, but the movies have shown that SHIELD has been around for awhile. Iron Man also mentions Howard Stark working on the Manhattan Project, but no mention of Captain America. There have been plenty of other points that were inconsistent because the plans were not fleshed out, or they went in a different direction.

I consider this a price to pay for a shared universe. And the inconsistencies never reached X-Men movie level, so it didn't bug me as much.

That's the "work in progress" part. If you go back to the comics of the '60-mid-70s, and read across the different series, they were loaded with inconsistencies that they either ignored, or fit together as needed. It wasn't until the late 1970s at Marvel that shared-universe consistency became an imperative. That's when you begin to see one comic referencing what's going on in the current issue of another, if only as a throwaway line. That's also when you begin to see various threads being tied together, even through retroactive continuity (i.e. originally, The Inhumans were originally characterized as evolving independently from an ancestor common to humans, and The Eternals were clearly intended to be in a continuity of their own).

I have no real evidence to support this assertion, but the late-1970's-onward trend towards making everything consistent and cross-explanatory seems to correspond with Roy Thomas getting authority at Marvel. He really seemed to like viewing both DC and Marvel (Timely) as tales from a single, multi-generational, grand epic.

[Rincewind]

That's the "work in progress" part. If you go back to the comics of the '60-mid-70s, and read across the different series, they were loaded with inconsistencies that they either ignored, or fit together as needed. It wasn't until the late 1970s at Marvel that shared-universe consistency became an imperative. That's when you begin to see one comic referencing what's going on in the current issue of another, if only as a throwaway line. That's also when you begin to see various threads being tied together, even through retroactive continuity (i.e. originally, The Inhumans were originally characterized as evolving independently from an ancestor common to humans, and The Eternals were clearly intended to be in a continuity of their own).

I have no real evidence to support this assertion, but the late-1970's-onward trend towards making everything consistent and cross-explanatory seems to correspond with Roy Thomas getting authority at Marvel. He really seemed to like viewing both DC and Marvel (Timely) as tales from a single, multi-generational, grand epic.

I agree with that. There are fans who long for the "good old days" when there were only a dozen titles to follow under a handful of creators. But even in the sixties where Stan was editing the entire line and scripting every comic (with help from his brother Larry Leiber) there were still inconsistencies. Stan got both Spider-Man and the Hulk's names wrong in print. Captain America was retconned as being frozen since WWII, even though Stan wrote post war Captain America in the past decade. And the powers changed constantly. Anyone remember when Namor could expand like a blowfish? Or when he could conduct electricity like an eel?

People like Roy Thomas, Mark Gruenwald, Steve Englehart, and others worked overtime to make the MU consistent, explain away any continuity errors, and use the past stories to form the current and future stories. Creators like Claremont, Byrne, and Stern worked closely together to flesh out character backstory and worldbuilding.

But the results could vary. There was a Silver Surfer story about a duplicate Surfer that was only written so Steve Englehart could explain why the Silver Surfer had a cameo during the Death Of Captain Marvel GN set on Titan when the Surfer was still exiled on Earth. It seemed like a lot of effort to correct a mistake no one noticed or even cared about. At times, it seemed some creators were valuing consistency more than story quality.

[Rincewind]

Well not so much as talk to the Black Order but simply let the camera move to show us the Black Order ready to act on Thanos's orders or show them walk into the scene behind him. Well your mileage may vary on this I guess though in all honesty Thanos's words can taken quite literally when he went to pick up the Infinity Gauntlet to begin his hunt for the Stones especially when no plans have been revealed to include new goons for him to command. But too bad they never or maybe could not show the conflict between Thanos and the Collector over the Reality Stone.

.
I disagree. The Black Order is just a collection of people serving Thanos. The AoU mid credit scene is there to show that Thanos will be an active threat instead of a character operating in the shadows. It is not meant to introduce other characters who will be serving him. Once Infinity War came out, it is apparent that this is what Thanos meant.

Right now there is a literal reading of the line which is inconsistent with IW. There is also a broader meaning of the line which is perfectly consistent with IW. The filmmakers (and 99% of the audience) know that the broader meaning is the intention and execution of the story. To ignore that and say the literal meaning is the only possible meaning is going out of your way to find reasons to dislike IW.

[The Dying Detective]

I disagree. The Black Order is just a collection of people serving Thanos. The AoU mid credit scene is there to show that Thanos will be an active threat instead of a character operating in the shadows. It is not meant to introduce other characters who will be serving him. Once Infinity War came out, it is apparent that this is what Thanos meant.

Right now there is a literal reading of the line which is inconsistent with IW. There is also a broader meaning of the line which is perfectly consistent with IW. The filmmakers (and 99% of the audience) know that the broader meaning is the intention and execution of the story. To ignore that and say the literal meaning is the only possible meaning is going out of your way to find reasons to dislike IW.

But the thing is the Black Order were not simply generic mooks who were going to be sacrificed at the altar by their master. I understand what the Age of Ultron mid-credits was meant to convey I just thought it meant that Thanos was going to get the Stones himself. And if you say so.