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  1. #31
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    I'm sad smh

  2. #32

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    I have some questions for people who have also seen it.

    spoilers:

    1. I'll have to rewatch the film to fully understand the dialogue in this scene, but I couldn't understand why the Red Skull was there. It was a surprise sight but I couldn't see the reason. Is that the place he was shunted to by the Tesseract? And why is he wearing a strange looking cloak? Why doesn't he leave? Will Ronan appear at some point because he was also 'killed' by an Infinity stone?

    2. Stormbreaker. Why is this suddenly a Thanos-killing weapon? How did Thor know this would be effective? Why would a weapon forged from a small star kill someone who had all the Infinity stones? Is the power of this small star and forge more powerful than the Infinity stones? Does this mean Mjolnir is also a Thanos-killing weapon? The gauntlet was made from exactly the same place, why wasn't it one-shotting the heroes?

    3. The Ironman crew had Thanos frozen for about half a minute. Why didn't Dr Strange use the Time stone to rewind back to this moment to reset the outcome?

    4. How did Scarlet Witch hold Thanos back? She's powerful, yes, but holding back someone who had 5 Infinity stones?

    5. The Vision and Scarlet Witch were flung around the city during their fight with the Black Order; how did Captain America's crew know where they'd end up? It made for a dramatic entrance, no doubt, but made little sense when I think about it.
    end of spoilers

  3. #33
    Mighty Member Byakko's Avatar
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    For all the marketing, cross-media and otherwise, the Black Order not even being named in the film was pretty glaring. I also find it hilarious that the two usually more powerful members got nerfed as fuck, while the other two got more screentime and had better fighting performances than they ever did in the comics.

    I'm definitely hoping for the Blu-Ray cut with the rest of the scenes that were cut. Because I was looking forward to a small but sweet scene that I know was filmed, but was excluded from this theatrical cut.

  4. #34
    Legend HowitzerJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byakko View Post
    For all the marketing, cross-media and otherwise, the Black Order not even being named in the film was pretty glaring. I also find it hilarious that the two usually more powerful members got nerfed as fuck, while the other two got more screentime and had better fighting performances than they ever did in the comics.

    I'm definitely hoping for the Blu-Ray cut with the rest of the scenes that were cut. Because I was looking forward to a small but sweet scene that I know was filmed, but was excluded from this theatrical cut.
    I mean, everything is nerfed. Even the gauntlet. Personally I think it's understandable. Some things had to be scaled down. Or else the heroes wouldn't even have a chance of a chance at trying to stop Thanos. Especially on Titan.

    The film has such a large cast, I don't mind the Black Order basically being muscle. At the end of the day that's their purpose. A couple of them do get their names said in the film.

  5. #35
    Mighty Member Byakko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaShogun View Post
    I mean, everything is nerfed. Even the gauntlet. Personally I think it's understandable. Some things had to be scaled down. Or else the heroes wouldn't even have a chance of a chance at trying to stop Thanos. Especially on Titan.
    The thing is there's a constant nerfing of things that were mentioned to be 'powerful' in-universe of the MCU, but not actually explained why.

    For example vibranium. Corvus' blade guts Vision consistently. It's never mention how and why his blade can do that, it just can. In the comics, yeah we can accept it's so 'sharp it splits atoms', hyperbole is normal in comics so whatever. But in-universe of the MCU, vibranium is the magical super metal that up till this point, really only had a weakness in terms of high heat (Ultron melting) and some kind of frequency thing (Black Panther).

    Yet even though they are shocked that the blade could actually damage Vision, they don't actually follow-up on it later. I would have even settled for a villain monologue from Corvus saying anything about how his glaive can do that.

    Then there's weird scaling up, like with Thor and Stormbreaker being able to stand toe-to-toe with the Gauntlet. I don't see it as the Gauntlet being nerfed so much as Thor suddenly getting a power upgrade. In comics, Thanos can't fully utilize the Gauntlet the first time he assembles the Stones due to sensory overload, so I can accept that he takes some time to understand how to use the Gauntlet to basically make himself omnipotent, it wasn't an immediate thing either in the comics. In contrast, comics Thanos was able to throwdown with Thor equally even without the Gauntlet, even able to take a full thunderstrike easily.

    Will the next movie finally answer the questions of the Marvel universe? I hope so, because there's been a ton of hints dropped now in this film that Thor and the Asgardians actually have a pretty big role to play in terms of the universe of the MCU, and maybe that's why Thor got a significant power upgrade gradually.

    Copying over from my post on reddit, these are some points I noticed and what I'm inferring:

    1.) Eitri has a mold of the gauntlet already, and in point 2, it's implied he's had the mold for a while, and this isn't the first time a gauntlet was forged for this purpose.

    2.) Before we ever saw Thanos in film, we saw the Infinity Gauntlet replica in Odin's vault. Hela recognized what the gauntlet is and what it can do, because she is dismissive of the 'fake'.

    3). First ever Infinity Stone found chronologically on earth is the Tesseract back in Captain America: First Avenger. We even see Red Skull's actions back then made him linked to the Soul Stone, implying that all stones are all connected regardless of which stone they are (or the Soul Stone itself is an anchor)

    4.) In particular, 2 stones were hidden in the Nine Realms.

    5.) The Mind Stone has a separate kind of consciousness from Vision, and able to feel the approach of the other stones, as well as the intentions of Thanos. The entire way to attain the Soul stone suggests something/someone very deliberately set up a trial of morality and will.

    I think there's a lot more to Asgardians than just another particularly hardy race of human-like space aliens. The Asgardians were a war-like conquering race, until Odin suddenly stopped. 2 stones were left in their area of protection, with the Tesseract originally hidden in a filigree of the World Tree itself on Earth. In Thor: Dark World, it was shown the Nine Realms can even align and connect completely at certain points in time.

    If Odin was still around, and if Hela hadn't decimated the Einhenjar, the Asgardians could potentially have been able to successfully push back Thanos' army completely if they were able to come to Earth's aid. If Thor had realized his full power or if Hela was at the helm and allowed to constantly grow her power via Asgard, they could also potentially overpower Thanos before he could grab all stones (and Thor is shown to be able to temporarily overpower a full Gauntlet with Stormbreaker).

    I think the Asgardians were created and placed in the Nine Realms for a reason. Much like how the Eternals were modified by the Celestials (in the comics), I can't help but feel the Asgardians were tailor-made to be the most powerful race within the Nine Realms and set-up as kind of watchdogs on 2 stones for just such a problem as Thanos.

    But due to their own troubles, they ended up removing themselves from the board.

    And with the stones themselves, they seem to be part of a sentient being once. Going by their comic's origin (from Starlin's original idea), they were all a single sentient being, who exploded himself out of loneliness, but created the universe in its place and the stones are bits of itself left behind. In one story, when the stones were brought back together, they did reform into the original being (albeit a corrupted version).

    I feel like with the way the Mind Stone is shown to be actually somewhat sentient, and the Soul Gem's focus on testing a person's hubris, that there's definitely a deliberate consciousness around the stones.

    Add that to Eternity being mentioned and alluded to in GotG2, I think that's where the story is heading going.

    They might combine Eternity - the concept of the entire reality of the universe - with the original being that created the Stones. Thanos bringing all the bits back together, plus causing half the universe to be just gone, might prompt Eternity to make an entrance.

    Even going further, maybe Eternity cannot manifest directly, but he might be able to use an empty body as an avatar, say like, Adam Warlock?

  6. #36

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    Yes, without the help from cosmic beings, the full power of the Infinity Gauntlet had to be toned down otherwise it'd be a massacre. spoilers:
    Thanos basically had two of the six gems from the get-go so anything the heroes did on Titan would have been futile, unless Dr Strange utilised the Time gem
    end of spoilers One gem can destroy an entire world spoilers:
    yet the Scarlet Witch can hold back Thanos wielding 5 gems
    end of spoilers.

    I think Proxima mention's Corvus' name but the standard audience member will be sitting there thinking whether that name really matters anyway.

  7. #37
    Legend HowitzerJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byakko View Post
    The thing is there's a constant nerfing of things that were mentioned to be 'powerful' in-universe of the MCU, but not actually explained why.

    For example vibranium. Corvus' blade guts Vision consistently. It's never mention how and why his blade can do that, it just can. In the comics, yeah we can accept it's so 'sharp it splits atoms', hyperbole is normal in comics so whatever. But in-universe of the MCU, vibranium is the magical super metal that up till this point, really only had a weakness in terms of high heat (Ultron melting) and some kind of frequency thing (Black Panther).

    Yet even though they are shocked that the blade could actually damage Vision, they don't actually follow-up on it later. I would have even settled for a villain monologue from Corvus saying anything about how his glaive can do that.

    Then there's weird scaling up, like with Thor and Stormbreaker being able to stand toe-to-toe with the Gauntlet. I don't see it as the Gauntlet being nerfed so much as Thor suddenly getting a power upgrade. In comics, Thanos can't fully utilize the Gauntlet the first time he assembles the Stones due to sensory overload, so I can accept that he takes some time to understand how to use the Gauntlet to basically make himself omnipotent, it wasn't an immediate thing either in the comics. In contrast, comics Thanos was able to throwdown with Thor equally even without the Gauntlet, even able to take a full thunderstrike easily.

    Will the next movie finally answer the questions of the Marvel universe? I hope so, because there's been a ton of hints dropped now in this film that Thor and the Asgardians actually have a pretty big role to play in terms of the universe of the MCU, and maybe that's why Thor got a significant power upgrade gradually.

    Copying over from my post on reddit, these are some points I noticed and what I'm inferring:

    1.) Eitri has a mold of the gauntlet already, and in point 2, it's implied he's had the mold for a while, and this isn't the first time a gauntlet was forged for this purpose.

    2.) Before we ever saw Thanos in film, we saw the Infinity Gauntlet replica in Odin's vault. Hela recognized what the gauntlet is and what it can do, because she is dismissive of the 'fake'.

    3). First ever Infinity Stone found chronologically on earth is the Tesseract back in Captain America: First Avenger. We even see Red Skull's actions back then made him linked to the Soul Stone, implying that all stones are all connected regardless of which stone they are (or the Soul Stone itself is an anchor)

    4.) In particular, 2 stones were hidden in the Nine Realms.

    5.) The Mind Stone has a separate kind of consciousness from Vision, and able to feel the approach of the other stones, as well as the intentions of Thanos. The entire way to attain the Soul stone suggests something/someone very deliberately set up a trial of morality and will.

    I think there's a lot more to Asgardians than just another particularly hardy race of human-like space aliens. The Asgardians were a war-like conquering race, until Odin suddenly stopped. 2 stones were left in their area of protection, with the Tesseract originally hidden in a filigree of the World Tree itself on Earth. In Thor: Dark World, it was shown the Nine Realms can even align and connect completely at certain points in time.

    If Odin was still around, and if Hela hadn't decimated the Einhenjar, the Asgardians could potentially have been able to successfully push back Thanos' army completely if they were able to come to Earth's aid. If Thor had realized his full power or if Hela was at the helm and allowed to constantly grow her power via Asgard, they could also potentially overpower Thanos before he could grab all stones (and Thor is shown to be able to temporarily overpower a full Gauntlet with Stormbreaker).

    I think the Asgardians were created and placed in the Nine Realms for a reason. Much like how the Eternals were modified by the Celestials (in the comics), I can't help but feel the Asgardians were tailor-made to be the most powerful race within the Nine Realms and set-up as kind of watchdogs on 2 stones for just such a problem as Thanos.

    But due to their own troubles, they ended up removing themselves from the board.

    And with the stones themselves, they seem to be part of a sentient being once. Going by their comic's origin (from Starlin's original idea), they were all a single sentient being, who exploded himself out of loneliness, but created the universe in its place and the stones are bits of itself left behind. In one story, when the stones were brought back together, they did reform into the original being (albeit a corrupted version).

    I feel like with the way the Mind Stone is shown to be actually somewhat sentient, and the Soul Gem's focus on testing a person's hubris, that there's definitely a deliberate consciousness around the stones.

    Add that to Eternity being mentioned and alluded to in GotG2, I think that's where the story is heading going.

    They might combine Eternity - the concept of the entire reality of the universe - with the original being that created the Stones. Thanos bringing all the bits back together, plus causing half the universe to be just gone, might prompt Eternity to make an entrance.

    Even going further, maybe Eternity cannot manifest directly, but he might be able to use an empty body as an avatar, say like, Adam Warlock?
    Ok I'm just going to address the nerfing issue. In my head cannon, I figure the gauntlet in the MCU just gives the user more abilities to use at their disposal. It doesn't make them invulnerable like it did in the comics where Thanos basically was a genie, and attacking him was pointless. That's why a weapon can still stab him if you get the drop on him.

    As for Vision getting hurt, I mean Vibranium is the strongest metal on Earth. The Black Order aren't from Earth. I think that's a possible conclusion that doesn't really need an explanation.
    Last edited by HowitzerJoe; 04-25-2018 at 09:42 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by k von doom View Post
    Yes, without the help from cosmic beings, the full power of the Infinity Gauntlet had to be toned down otherwise it'd be a massacre. spoilers:
    Thanos basically had two of the six gems from the get-go so anything the heroes did on Titan would have been futile, unless Dr Strange utilised the Time gem
    end of spoilers One gem can destroy an entire world spoilers:
    yet the Scarlet Witch can hold back Thanos wielding 5 gems
    end of spoilers.

    I think Proxima mention's Corvus' name but the standard audience member will be sitting there thinking whether that name really matters anyway.
    Right, the casual person won't know who the Black Order is. They'll get the picture that they're basically Thanos' muscle.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member Byakko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaShogun View Post
    Ok I'm just going to address the nerfing issue. In my head cannon, I figure the gauntlet in the MCU just gives the user more abilities to use at their disposal. It doesn't make them invulnerable like it did in the comics where Thanos basically was a genie, and attacking him was pointless. That's why a weapon can still stab him if you get the drop on him.

    As for Vision getting hurt, I mean Vibranium is the strongest metal on Earth. The Black Order aren't from Earth.
    Vibranium came from space. In Black Panther, it's mentioned how the chunk of it fell from space to form the mountain that the Wakandan tribes gathered around. I wouldn't be surprised if vibranium is revealed to be part of a Celestial or something, like Knowhere being the skull of one and containing its bodily fluids being mined as well.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byakko View Post
    Vibranium came from space. In Black Panther, it's mentioned how the chunk of it fell from space to form the mountain that the Wakandan tribes gathered around. I wouldn't be surprised if vibranium is revealed to be part of a Celestial or something, like Knowhere being the skull of one and containing its bodily fluids being mined as well.
    Right, but still though, it's the strongest metal on Earth. Doesn't mean there aren't other elements in the universe that can't trump Vibranium. That's what I'm getting at. Galaxy is a big place.

  11. #41
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    I liked the movie quite abit! some Pro's and cons:

    Pro's:

    1. I loved Spidey's portrail for the most part, also liked how he was the one that came up with the plan to beat a certain person, like in civil war with Giant man.
    2. I loved Thanos, he suprised me quite a few times.
    3. Thor was EPIC and actually looked like a god.
    4. I liked Ebony maw.

    Cons:

    1. Captain America surviving a hit in the face from Thanos...the same Thanos that was owning the Hulk, there are alot of fluctuating powerlevels in this movie, depending on who fights who.
    2. spoilers:
    They should not have killed Spider-man, black panther and star-lord, to give the scene some more weight, you KNOW they will return, unless you are a average movie goer
    end of spoilers
    3. Spidey crying and pleading....i know he is a kid but come on now.

    Funniest moments for me:

    Invisible drax.
    Footloose comment between Star-lord and Spider-man

  12. #42
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    spoilers:

    The opening scene sets up Thanos' power nicely with the utter defeat of the Asgardians and apparent death of Loki. I did think Loki was being daft with the stabbing attempt. Even if he did stab Thanos, did he actually think it'd kill him? What about all of Thanos' henchmen standing around? Loki would have had more luck trying to use the Tesseract to fight Thanos.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    I honestly thought that that was what he was going to do - use the tesseract to get him and Thor out of there.
    end of spoilers

    spoilers:
    Thanos' henchmen have some ... dodgy CGI where their faces look like they're made of plastic. Think 'Avatar' but lower grade.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    The CGI with Banner's and Rhodey's heads and the suits at the end... that was so bad.
    end of spoilers

    spoilers:
    The cinema cheered when Cap first appeared on screen.
    end of spoilers
    Same in ours.

    spoilers:
    Thor's interactions with the GotG were hilarious, especially Starlord's rampant jealousy.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    Starlord had put on some weight...
    end of spoilers

    spoilers:
    I did think Tony was being a bit thick when Strange said he saw only one scenario where they won and later said "this was the only way" after he gave up the Time Stone.
    end of spoilers
    Ditto.

    spoilers:
    Thor's restarting of the forge was a bit odd. He can apparently take the focused output of a star (albeit a small one) for some minutes and survive. Yet Thanos wiped the floor with him. On the other hand ... Stormbreaker!
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    Different types of trauma.
    end of spoilers

    spoilers:
    Great to see the Hulkbuster suit again, I am surprised it was Bruce in it though.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    The trailers had Hulk in the Wakanda charge, didn't they?
    end of spoilers

    spoilers:
    I really enjoyed the film. They crammed a lot in and it somehow worked wonderfully.
    end of spoilers
    Absolutely

  13. #43
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaShogun View Post
    Of course, now I have questions

    spoilers:
    Nick Fury tried to message Captain Marvel. Why though? What could she do with what happened regarding Thanos' decision to wipe out half the universe?

    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    Nick had no idea that that's what Thanos had done - all he knew (from Hill) was that something was going down in Wakanda (where the others seemed to have gathered) and Tony was missing. He saw people disintegrating so he called in his biggest gun (or tried to).
    end of spoilers

    Sorry, edited to include spoiler tags.

    My bad.

  14. #44
    Legend HowitzerJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    Nick had no idea that that's what Thanos had done - all he knew (from Hill) was that something was going down in Wakanda (where the others seemed to have gathered) and Tony was missing. He saw people disintegrating so he called in his biggest gun (or tried to).
    Right. So it's basically just an advert for Captain Marvel coming. The way Fury reacted made it seem to me like he knew something. But I guess I can see him just deciding to contact his ace in the hole when he started to see folks immediately vanish.

  15. #45
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaShogun View Post
    spoilers:
    Right. So it's basically just an advert for Captain Marvel coming.
    end of spoilers
    Basically, yes.

    spoilers:
    The way Fury reacted made it seem to me like he knew something. But I guess I can see him just deciding to contact his ace in the hole when he started to see folks immediately vanish.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    He may have had some awareness of something but with the lack of communication with any government or inter-government organisation (other than Wakanda) and the small amount of intel Maria shared with him, he was probably as much in the dark about what was going on as Ross.
    end of spoilers

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