Avengers 690: Now that No Surrender is over, what are your opinion?

[JKtheMac]

Eh. I only have second hand info anyway. Only got to read something like the first 6 issues of the story in full because a weekly schedule makes a mess of comic shops ordering a book and keeping a stock for folks who might chance to read it.

Meh.

Voyager sounds like she made a turn for good but is ultimately more boring than her being an actual retcon hero would've been.

Sounds like the writers messed up Enigma horribly both in character and story (she hasn't been a Planetary Defense System since the end of New Avengers! Weird too considering Ewing was on this, you'd think he'd catch the mistake)

So is US Avengers done? I thought the books were only paused until this MehVengers event finished.

Here’s a thought. Perhaps Ewing doesn’t agree with you?

[JKtheMac]

Seems we are solidly into the inevitable fan backlash here. Perhaps the most successful modern run of Avengers, widely acclaimed, with a huge demand for a hardback edition. With some mentioning it in the same breath as Avengers Forever, and yet here we are moaning about it for not doing exactly what each individual fan wanted. Comic fandom!

[PyroTwilight]

Here’s a thought. Perhaps Ewing doesn’t agree with you?

Probably shouldn't have used terms like die for POD then back in New Avengers.

Not really many ways to take POD dying at the hands of another planetary defense system (the only thing that can hurt one according to the story, though I'm sure that's a generalization) in all its finality if that somehow still made it a Planetary Defense System despite not having any similar power levels since that story.

it was about as clear as could be that whatever the Enigma armor was...it wasn't THAT anymore.

And apparently Aikku's been completely depowered due to this event? Yeesh. I've been annoyed ever since they first began Aikku's plot of losing POD. It just boils down to a story where a woman can be super powerful but not happy and has to lose it. Geeze they screwed the pooch with her.

[JKtheMac]

Probably shouldn't have used terms like die for POD then back in New Avengers.

Not really many ways to take POD dying at the hands of another planetary defense system (the only thing that can hurt one according to the story, though I'm sure that's a generalization) in all its finality if that somehow still made it a Planetary Defense System despite not having any similar power levels since that story.

it was about as clear as could be that whatever the Enigma armor was...it wasn't THAT anymore.

And apparently Aikku's been completely depowered due to this event? Yeesh. I've been annoyed ever since they first began Aikku's plot of losing POD. It just boils down to a story where a woman can be super powerful but not happy and has to lose it. Geeze they screwed the pooch with her.

No you have entirely lost me. I read both runs and I don't see what you are actually objecting to at all. Perhaps your second-hand informant is telling you something happened that didn't, or colouring it in a strange way.

The reference to dying is a simile in A:NS, she is depicted as having faith that POD is still there and when the suit gets damaged she looses her connection to it and she feels dejected. Even after this she is still depicted as having faith in POD potentially being there, and she still uses the suit so she wasn't entirely depowered either.

The reference to Planetary Defence System is just in reference to the fact that the suit's powers, which they are using in the scene, were 'grown as one' so it's just like saying 'we have some powerful kit here' nothing more.

All-in-all, I read this as being a seed for a return of POD when Enigma is next in a book.

[Byakko]

Seems we are solidly into the inevitable fan backlash here. Perhaps the most successful modern run of Avengers, widely acclaimed, with a huge demand for a hardback edition. With some mentioning it in the same breath as Avengers Forever, and yet here we are moaning about it for not doing exactly what each individual fan wanted. Comic fandom!

Yes, comic fandom - if you're not with me, you're wrong. If you disagree with me, you're wrong, and I will attempt to deflect criticism for something I like by attempting to belittle the complaints of my 'opponents' by saying they're 'moaning'.

Title of topic says 'What is your opinion', not 'support only the (supposed) popular opinion.'

I like some parts of the event, but the irony is incredibly strong with you lately with how much of your fanboy is showing.

[JKtheMac]

Yes, comic fandom - if you're not with me, you're wrong. If you disagree with me, you're wrong, and I will attempt to deflect criticism for something I like by attempting to belittle the complaints of my 'opponents' by saying they're 'moaning'.

Title of topic says 'What is your opinion', not 'support only the (supposed) popular opinion.'

I like some parts of the event, but the irony is incredibly strong with you lately with how much of your fanboy is showing.

I think it is fair comment considering how universal the praise has been for this run, and how successful it was.

We are in an era when everyone is insisting nobody wants events, and yet with a thin disguise this event performed remarkably well and from my perspective drew much praise from people that had otherwise stopped reading Avengers books.

[CIA]

It's far from Avengers Forever, no Surrender was a snooze and I tuned out after they hinted for Hulk. Not on the level of Aaron's Avengers that was the comic equivalent of chugging down a handful of Ambien though.

[JKtheMac]

It's far from Avengers Forever, no Surrender was a snooze and I tuned out after they hinted for Hulk. Not on the level of Aaron's Avengers that was the comic equivalent of chugging down a handful of Ambien though.

Well, I am not the one talking about it in the same breath because I make no claim to be a big Avengers fan. Marvel unlimited was my friend when No Surrender began to reference older tales. It is not hard to find people ranking it in their top Avengers lists. But, even those that are talking about this in relation to AF don't seek to position it above that book, just as ranking it as one of the great self-contained runs. The fact they are doing this is notable in-and-of itself.

Has to be said though that Avengers Forever is pretty difficult as a read for anyone not steeped in Avengers lore. When I first read it I was totally lost. So as self contained stories go AF is not very self-contained. Whereas this story is very accessible and for many, very satisfying and engaging.

But sure, Busiek is an undisputed great and one of my all-time favourite writers, even if AF was somewhat challenging as a read for somebody that hadn't read that much early Avengers.

[Sutekh]

But sure, Busiek is an undisputed great and one of my all-time favourite writers, even if AF was somewhat challenging as a read for somebody that hadn't read that much early Avengers.

Eh. I'm a Legion of Super-Heroes fan. Avengers Forever was a cake-walk for me. I love that sort of thing, although obviously heavy exploration of canon isn't everyone's cup of tea.

As for No Surrender, now that it's all said and done, I want to read more about what the Wasp, Quicksilver, Sunspot, Toni Ho, Lightning, Red Wolf, etc. are going to be doing and could give a shiny bupkiss for what Tony, Steve, Thor, Carol, etc. are going to be doing in the main Avengers title. The current focus on the 'big name Avengers' is as dull for me as DC's focus on their 'Trinity' in the Justice League (when I'd rather be reading about Black Canary, Vixen, Martian Manhunter, Booster Gold, etc.).

I always seem to prefer the Lower Decks characters to the cool kids that sell books like Batman or Wolverine. Such is my contrary nature. And so No Surrender was totally my pleasure. (Ditto Avengers Forever, actually, for showcasing less-used Avengers like Hank and Jan, and 'newbies' like Genis-Vell and Songbird.)

[JKtheMac]

Eh. I'm a Legion of Super-Heroes fan. Avengers Forever was a cake-walk for me. I love that sort of thing, although obviously heavy exploration of canon isn't everyone's cup of tea.

I appreciate it more now I have ready access to more of the material it was drawing upon. When I first read it I was a little lost. I still woudn't consider the ins and outs of Kang's history a strength of mine however. I was more an X-Men fan anyway.

As for No Surrender, now that it's all said and done, I want to read more about what the Wasp, Quicksilver, Sunspot, Toni Ho, Lightning, Red Wolf, etc. are going to be doing and could give a shiny bupkiss for what Tony, Steve, Thor, Carol, etc. are going to be doing in the main Avengers title. The current focus on the 'big name Avengers' is as dull for me as DC's focus on their 'Trinity' in the Justice League (when I'd rather be reading about Black Canary, Vixen, Martian Manhunter, Booster Gold, etc.).

I always seem to prefer the Lower Decks characters to the cool kids that sell books like Batman or Wolverine. Such is my contrary nature. And so No Surrender was totally my pleasure. (Ditto Avengers Forever, actually, for showcasing less-used Avengers like Hank and Jan, and 'newbies' like Genis-Vell and Songbird.)

The wide and generous use of spotlight was one of the books strengths. It would seem we will see more of these guys, just not necessarily in a book titled Avengers any time soon.

[CentralPower]

half it's issue count would have been plenty imo

Alternatively, they could have done more with the issue count. But, yes, either way, "Surrender" was less than it should have been for what it was.

[kilderkin]

Alternatively, they could have done more with the issue count. But, yes, either way, "Surrender" was less than it should have been for what it was.

Yes I agree

I enjoyed it, some parts I loved, but it felt too long for what it really had as story

not decompressed per se but just a bit thin in places

But it was good, I did like it, overall I enjoyed it each week, and that's really all that matters I suppose