Avengers 690: Now that No Surrender is over, what are your opinion?

[Lucas 35]

What did you guys think of No Surrender?

Do you like it? Which characters were best used? And the villains? What are the best parts of the story? What do you expect for the future of avengers and villains?

If you could make a team of avengers using the members of this arc, which members would you choose?

[Witchfan]

Do you have spoilers for this issue, for if you haven't read it then No Surrender isn't over.

[Jabare]

I like how they tried to spin the Clint and Bruce thing and it totally failed. Clint straight up murdered Bruce and somehow it's Bruce's fault and Clint forgives him


what a world

[ChronoRogue]

It was a nice issue but I did have some problems with it.

spoilers:

We never really got the meet this supporting cast that was mentioned in interviews about Lightning. I was looking forward to that and then we get this Red Wolf and Lightning epilogue with not a peep from that story-line. I guess it must've changed sometime during the event, same as Captain Marvel being more involved in the story. I'm going to very grumpy if Lightning doesn't show up anywhere in the coming months! I liked how a lot of loose-ends were addressed here but my favorite team didn't really get a proper send-off. The USAvengers are properly disbanded but the Unity team's status is just left with no comment. The closet explanation to why the team disbands (presumably) is because half of the members are preoccupied with other things, but Rogue, Wasp and Captain America could've recruited more members if they really wanted to. Especially considering how important the team was emphasized to be to Rogue. So I'm left very ??? and frustrated with that. I at least wanted some closure. Oh well, beyond that, I enjoyed it.

end of spoilers

[AcesX1X]

it was really good. loved the ending

[gurkle]

It was too padded and didn't have enough character interactions, but it was still an enjoyable story.

It felt like the "real" Avengers - a collection of mostly B and C-listers brought together by the great tradition of the team - in a way that I didn't get from Hickman's or All-New/All-Different and I definitely won't get from Aaron's all-star lineup.

I just find it unfortunate that so few of these characters have anywhere to go while the only Avengers book will consist almost entirely of heroes who already have books.

[Matternativ]

I'm just gonna quote myself from last week.

I liked the fact that the C Listers got to shine, that was actually one of the better parts of this but I gotta disagree on the part were it was a good tale withoutlots of flash. In fact I'd say it felt like the other way around for me. It was very flashy but with little substance.
Character moments were there but seldom had any sort of build up which lessened their impact.
It really did feel to me like a shonen Manga to me rather than a Western Comic, the ending reinforced that by quite a bit.
I mean they could barely irritate their opponent and as soon as they believed in themselves they got a major power up. That trope even annoys me in better stories.

It were the Subplots that kept it all from falling apart completely for me but they alone don't make for a good event.

And maybe this does feel like Busiek, I would not know as I haven't read his stuff but given how little enjoyment I got out of this I doubt I'd be a Busiek fan then.

To me it felt more like a classic Waid story. Not risky/deep enough to fail and possibly end up being considered bad but also forgettable and far from being good.

I'll say that the art was nice throughout and sometimes kept the illusion of epicness up.

It feels really weird to be the negative person in the room for once but I'd lie to myself if I were to praise something I really doesn't feel deserves too much praise.

Still, like I said: I'm happy for everyone who enjoys it, that's cool. There is waaaaay too much unwarranted negativity in the Comic Book Fandom as it is.

And now with the last issue out all I can think of is how freaking bad the scene between Bruce and Clint was.

The Accused, Occupy Avenger, Secret Empire. All of these books portrayed Hawkeye as someone who was tormented by guilt over killing Banner or at the very least unsure it was the right thing to do.

And now? He's all like: "Glad I could help you buddy."
What the actual fuck? It's much more out of character than the assassination itself and makes no sense now matter how you look at it.

Not to mention that it only served to make Bruce feel even worse.

[Knives]

I expected a little more from the epilogue after the battle against the villain but it was the same as always when the teams separates for another to take place showing the direction that some characters will take in future events or going back to obscurity. Forgetting why they came together and leaving some loose ends.

Do not get me wrong it's been years since I've read a story about the Avengers that really enjoyed and the fact they get it with giving space and highlights to so many B, C, or D characters deserves to be recognized and praised. As they said is the end of an era with the return of more classic and recognized characters of the fans (which has generated much debate in the last years).

I'm going to miss a lot of characters mainly from UA and I think it was a mistake to end this team but I'm not the one to decide that. Also we have some loose ends that will be resolved later like the story involving the search for Pietro but overall it was a decent ending.

[PhoenixThanos]

The storyline was so/so, I have a question about the Grand Master though.
He is an Elder of the Universe, now being an Elder of the Universe you have to be the last of your kind, but now he has a daughter in Voyager, so he isn't an Elder of the Universe anymore ?.

[Knives]

I like how they tried to spin the Clint and Bruce thing and it totally failed. Clint straight up murdered Bruce and somehow it's Bruce's fault and Clint forgives him


what a world

Well it's not much different than when other heroes make peace after killing or trying to kill each other.

Bruce took responsibility and Clint did not seem to regret even justifying his actions because of that vision that we do not know if one day could or could not happen (very strange considering his conduct in Secret Empire when seeing the Hulk and getting to his knees).Marvel seems to believe that readers will forget this once a new team or a relaunch happen for the next big event.

Well if it was an awkward situation wait for Carol and Stark to meet again soon .

[Digifiend]

The storyline was so/so, I have a question about the Grand Master though.
He is an Elder of the Universe, now being an Elder of the Universe you have to be the last of your kind, but now he has a daughter in Voyager, so he isn't an Elder of the Universe anymore ?.

He's not the first Elder to have a kid.

[mrswing]

A perfectly boring end to a perfectly average and overblown 'event' which was just the umpteenth 'Avengers vs. The Elders of the Universe' story. Art was very good but the writing was average, there was nothing new here and if the intention was to relaunch Hulk, they could have done that in a normal two-part story.
Conclusion: not terrible but extremely non-essential. And far too long.

[davew128]

The storyline was so/so, I have a question about the Grand Master though.
He is an Elder of the Universe, now being an Elder of the Universe you have to be the last of your kind, but now he has a daughter in Voyager, so he isn't an Elder of the Universe anymore ?.

No different than the Collector who's daughter was introduced during the Korvac Saga 40 years ago.

[Digifiend]

As for the break ups, spoilers:

yeah, we only explicitly saw the U.S.Avengers disband. That'll be why Doreen took that new volunteer job in Marvel Rising, she has more free time now she's no longer an Avenger. The Unity Squad did lose four members, with Voodoo, Synapse, and Wanda off retrieving Pietro in Quicksilver: No Surrender. We'll probably hear about what's next for them before the miniseries ends. Human Torch will also leave when the Fantastic Four reunite. Perhaps they'll restructure later. As for the core team, according to Jim Zub, Champions #21 takes place before No Surrender, which means Nadia was on double duty. And Thor is depowered. Spider-Man seems to have quit before No Surrender started, probably due to his new job at the Bugle. Vision is still incapacitated too. With only three members left, and one of them now a part-timer, it's no surprise that roster disbanded.

end of spoilers

[XPac]

I'm just gonna quote myself from last week.


And now with the last issue out all I can think of is how freaking bad the scene between Bruce and Clint was.

The Accused, Occupy Avenger, Secret Empire. All of these books portrayed Hawkeye as someone who was tormented by guilt over killing Banner or at the very least unsure it was the right thing to do.

And now? He's all like: "Glad I could help you buddy."
What the actual fuck? It's much more out of character than the assassination itself and makes no sense now matter how you look at it.

Not to mention that it only served to make Bruce feel even worse.

Killing someone will bother you a lot less once they come back to life. It really takes the sting out of it.